Essential The Official Football (Soccer) Thread - We are SO back, the Premier League returns!

[Kunty McPhuck]

what about Alves? Keita? Abidal? Villa? Mascherano?


I agree that he has to prove his worth elsewhere, but if it were so easy hten why didnt Rijkaard achieve as much? IMO, he had a better wealth of talent that had been together for a few seasons as well. Its never as black and white as you are trying to make it.


this is true, but do you hold Sacchi to the same standard as Guardiola?

Sacchi got to a WC final aswell. The way his Milan were, he was ahead of his time, zonal markin, high pressing, the defence and attack no more at most 30 yards apart the team defended as a unit. Then add that to the attackin players they had, reason why Sacchi gets his props, even tho he did it for such a short period of time.

Pep has used alot from Cruyff and Bielsa and added a couple things himself

 

[Olu Dara]

Sacchi got to a WC final aswell. The way his Milan were, he was ahead of his time, zonal markin, high pressing, the defence and attack no more at most 30 yards apart the team defended as a unit. Then add that to the attackin players they had, reason why Sacchi gets his props, even tho he did it for such a short period of time.

Pep has used alot from Cruyff and Bielsa and added a couple things himself

Pep screwed Barcelona this season with his little experiments. Why change to 3-4-3 when 4-3-3 was the perfect formation the previous seasons. Had he sticked to the old formation, they would've won the lague and possibly the Champions league as well. He fukked up.

 

[Kunty McPhuck]

Pep screwed Barcelona this season with his little experiments. Why change to 3-4-3 when 4-3-3 was the perfect formation the previous seasons. Had he sticked to the old formation, they would've won the lague and possibly the Champions league as well. He fukked up.

Tbh Peps biggest mistake was try to go for total football and havin players play out of position all the time instead of just havin those players in those postions for tactical reasons for that particular game. Cesc at this point of his career is a #10 and if ur lucky maybe play a bit deeper in Xavis role, hes no way a winger. Then pushin Alves too high up, gives him the lack of space that Alves likes to run into when he comes from a deeper position. He made the team too Messi orientated and they ended playin far to narrow when good teams put 9-10 men behind the ball. I understand Peps reasonin for the changin to keep the players on their toes and give them new targets but the amount of football Barca and Spain have played over the past 4 years the players are burnt out. They so use to winnin games in the 1st 20-30mins they could control the gaame and not really have to work as hard so it masked the tiredness but as we saw in the Chelsea and Real games when they needed to kick it up another level they couldnt do it.

 

[Kunty McPhuck]

why would this surprise you? Ibra is the most individualistic player in the world not named Cronaldo? HE cant play in a system unless its altered to feature him.

one of the blokes from Carlisle mentioned this eons ago on these threads, and I agree with him.

Pretty much. Ibra wants to be both scorer and creator. It reminded me of LeBron at the Cavs when he had all those shooters, but instead of the shooters its runners in Ibras case. The best game that highlighted how u get the best out of Ibra was the Arsenal 1st leg, where u had Ibra droppin deep then Robson and Ghetto Prince runnin onto the vacant space left by Ibra thus allowin Ibra to create and look like menace. If Ibra isnt allowed to move around and have players with good movement around and run beyond him hes pretty easy to stop when he comes up against the better teams.

Theres a reason why Nocerino was Milans 2nd highest scorer this season

 

[Liu Kang]

Martinez is ehh, just goes to show that there are no proper managers available (not that any of them would be interested in Liverpool tbh).

Mourinho is tied up, Pep is a fraud, AVB found out, Benitez is all other semi-decent managers tied up as well.

We been linked with Capello today btw and it sounds pretty legit. Terry definitely had a word with the board

Wigan stay up after a switch to 3-4-3 | Zonal Marking

Here's a good article about Martinez and the way it made Wigan play this season.

Tbh Peps biggest mistake was try to go for total football and havin players play out of position all the time instead of just havin those players in those postions for tactical reasons for that particular game. Cesc at this point of his career is a #10 and if ur lucky maybe play a bit deeper in Xavis role, hes no way a winger. Then pushin Alves too high up, gives him the lack of space that Alves likes to run into when he comes from a deeper position. He made the team too Messi orientated and they ended playin far to narrow when good teams put 9-10 men behind the ball. I understand Peps reasonin for the changin to keep the players on their toes and give them new targets but the amount of football Barca and Spain have played over the past 4 years the players are burnt out. They so use to winnin games in the 1st 20-30mins they could control the gaame and not really have to work as hard so it masked the tiredness but as we saw in the Chelsea and Real games when they needed to kick it up another level they couldnt do it.

Honestly, Villa's injury really hurt Barça too.
But you're right overall, and I'm pretty sure the likes of Tello, Cuenca and Alcantara will sure be great players in the future, but making them starters in a CL semi-final was also a mistake IMO... above all when you got a Pedro on the bench...

 

[mastermind]

Sacchi got to a WC final aswell. The way his Milan were, he was ahead of his time, zonal markin, high pressing, the defence and attack no more at most 30 yards apart the team defended as a unit. Then add that to the attackin players they had, reason why Sacchi gets his props, even tho he did it for such a short period of time.

Pep has used alot from Cruyff and Bielsa and added a couple things himself

Yes, I knew all of this, but he did have 6-7 players who were among the very best in the world to incorporate those tactics, no? For 2 straight years, Milan had 3 players finish in the top 3 of the Ballon D'or.

I didnt say that to take anything away from Sacchi, I just think its BS to get on Guardiola for using the talent he has as effectively as he did.

 

[mastermind]

Pep screwed Barcelona this season with his little experiments. Why change to 3-4-3 when 4-3-3 was the perfect formation the previous seasons. Had he sticked to the old formation, they would've won the lague and possibly the Champions league as well. He fukked up.

they have been playing a 3-4-3/3-5-2 the last three seasons. Its a big reason why they sold Yaya because Busquets is more adaptable.

Its when he tried to do cute shyt like having Alves standing position being in the attacking 3rd that started to screw them.

Injuries were also as important.

 

[Kunty McPhuck]

Yes, I knew all of this, but he did have 6-7 players who were among the very best in the world to incorporate those tactics, no? For 2 straight years, Milan had 3 players finish in the top 3 of the Ballon D'or.

I didnt say that to take anything away from Sacchi, I just think its BS to get on Guardiola for using the talent he has as effectively as he did.

Sacchi is seen as a revolutionary, Pep like i said borrowed from others and then added his own spin to their work by fieldin midgets.

Before Sacchi got there Milan hadnt done shyt for 9 seasons, when Pep took over at Barca they hadnt won the league in 2 seasons.

 

[BOBN]

I agree that he has to prove his worth elsewhere, but if it were so easy hten why didnt Rijkaard achieve as much? IMO, he had a better wealth of talent that had been together for a few seasons as well. Its never as black and white as you are trying to make it.

ok so hes better than rijkaard. theres a leap from that to "one of the best ever"

I guess my thing is I dont understand the need by people to de-legitimize Barcelona's greatness as if its something easy to do. We just watched one of the greatest sides to ever play, and I disliked them too but that does not mean I have to de-legitimize their stake at greatness.

I dont dislike barcelona. if you dislike barca thats on you.

lets say barca are one of the best of all time, thats ok. but how many of the constituent parts need to be "best ever" status to achieve this overall "best ever" status.

messi is a best ever player
xavi is a best ever midfielder
la maisa produced a best ever generation of homegrown talent
barca playing staff a best ever overall collection of talent
guardiola is a best ever coach
barcelona a best ever budget

isnt it simple logical reasoning to say they dont all need to be true to produce overall the best ever side in barcelona? you just need to be better than the rest to be the best ever afterall and not perfect.

messi the best ever + xavi the best ever + la maisa the best ever + pep an average to above average coach = best ever side

is this equation possible? yes it is. its lazy to just brush that possibilty under the carpet. to test each component you must surely remove the other varibles. for instance xavi has been tested (spain) and passed. I accept he is one of the best ever midfielders. and I suspect messi is one of the best ever but this is unproven.

and anyone who thinks pep is one of the best ever suspects it, cos its unproven. but whats the rush? as soon as he back in the game and doing great things at another club (or repeating his success at barca with a new generation) id be the first to crown him.

this is true, but do you hold Sacchi to the same standard as Guardiola?

sacchi is just a name to me. I dont claim to know anything about that cac

but listen i'll prove its not personal because I didnt accept alex fergusons GOAT status until about 06-07 when they came out flying with the rooney-saha-ronaldo team. I hadnt seen enough to say he didnt just get lucky with that freak giggs, beckham, butt, scholes etc generation until then. guardiola has time on his side, everybody relax.

 

[Scottie Drippin]

[YOUTUBE]QMv8g8CO4cQ[/YOUTUBE]

Mad as fukk about LeBroward stopping Chicha's shot.

Not liking the fact that of all the people he could've passed to, Nike had Neymar find Pique and Iniesta.

Hilarious that Pato isn't playing.

 

[mastermind]

ok so hes better than rijkaard. theres a leap from that to "one of the best ever"

its not

lets say barca are one of the best of all time, thats ok. but how many of the constituent parts need to be "best ever" status to achieve this overall "best ever" status.

messi is a best ever player
xavi is a best ever midfielder
la maisa produced a best ever generation of homegrown talent
barca playing staff a best ever overall collection of talent
guardiola is a best ever coach
barcelona a best ever budget

isnt it simple logical reasoning to say they dont all need to be true to produce overall the best ever side in barcelona? you just need to be better than the rest to be the best ever afterall and not perfect.

messi the best ever + xavi the best ever + la maisa the best ever + pep an average to above average coach = best ever side

is this equation possible? yes it is. its lazy to just brush that possibilty under the carpet. to test each component you must surely remove the other varibles. for instance xavi has been tested (spain) and passed. I accept he is one of the best ever midfielders. and I suspect messi is one of the best ever but this is unproven.

and anyone who thinks pep is one of the best ever suspects it, cos its unproven. but whats the rush? as soon as he back in the game and doing great things at another club (or repeating his success at barca with a new generation) id be the first to crown him.

thats fine that you want to separate the players, but as I said I am looking at them as a team, and alone as a team.

Can you look at the trophies he has accumulated the last 4 years and not say that his record is one of the best ever? They have won every competition at least twice (except the Copa Del Rey which they could do next week). Thats not something to scoff at.

I do agree he needs to show he can do it elsewhere, but that record already puts him up there as one of the best.

sacchi is just a name to me. I dont claim to know anything about that cac

well then most managers shouldnt be respected then since they are all :cac:

but listen i'll prove its not personal because I didnt accept alex fergusons GOAT status until about 06-07 when they came out flying with the rooney-saha-ronaldo team. I hadnt seen enough to say he didnt just get lucky with that freak giggs, beckham, butt, scholes etc generation until then. guardiola has time on his side, everybody relax.

all thats been said is that Guardiola's record is already among the best.

 

[Kunty McPhuck]

Just read that OG Abidal will never play again after his liver transplant, not a surprise but ashame never the less

 

[NSSVO]

Last of the negros... according to messi

 

[Kunty McPhuck]

Last of the negros... according to messi

 

[Olu Dara]

Just read that OG Abidal will never play again after his liver transplant, not a surprise but ashame never the less

The entourage of Eric Abidal, recovering from a liver transplant, denies the report saying he wants to retire as a player. [@fredtraini]