Essential The Official Football (Soccer) Thread - Life and Death for South America, Pre-Season for Europe: The Club World Cup

[The Eliminator]

First matches in the CL
12 September:
Benfica-CSKA
Man United-Basel
Bayern-Anderlecht
Celtic-PSG
Chelsea-Qarabag
Roma-Atletico Madrid
Barcelona-Juventus
Olympiacos-Sporting

13 September:
Maribor-Spartak
Liverpool-Sevilla
Feyenoord-Man City
Shaktar-Napoli
RB Leipzig-Monaco
Porto-Besiktas
Real Madrid-APOEL
Tottenham-Borrusia Dortmund

 

[e001]

Nobody cares about the Ballon D'Or in South America when people talk Ballon D 'Or it is often awarded to those who are playing in European domestic leagues. Like it or not European leagues are the litmus test for world football not South America or any other continent.

He has done a lot which actually helps bolster my argument that at that age he became even a better player in stronger league (Bundesliga). He was named best young player of the year in Ligue 1 his only year of playing on the first team for that one year. The next season, he was both rookie of the year in Bundesliga and named on the team of the year at his position last year. You can see the progression. Won a trophy last year, the equivalent of the FA/Copa Del Rey in Germany in his first year.

He competed in the CL last year and was named in their young/breakthrough team. He was on the Bundesliga team of the year. Germany, WC Champions (which beat Neymar led Brazil 7-1), has the majority of its roster play in the Bundesliga. If you are able to be named on the team of the year in your first year, you can play.

So basically Dembelé was better because he is european
Bundesliga is a two-horse race, I'm here talking about titles and real accomplishments and you are talking about best young player awards
I won't even keep entertaining this since you are clueless about South American football while I know both so you are clearly not in a position to speak on it, also your arguments don't even make sense. It's like saying players like Ronaldo, Ronaldinho, Maradona, Rivaldo, Romario, etc, were never as good as any bum ass european until they played in europe

 

[Frangala]

So basically Dembelé was better because he is european
Bundesliga is a two-horse race, I'm here talking about titles and real accomplishments and you are talking about best young player awards
I won't even keep entertaining this since you are clueless about South American football while I know both so you are clearly not in a position to speak on it, also your arguments don't even make sense. It's like saying players like Ronaldo, Ronaldinho, Maradona, Rivaldo, Romario, etc, were never as good as any bum ass european until they played in europe

I am not saying Dembele is better because he is simply European but he was exposed to better competition while playing in European domestic leagues (Ligue 1 and Bundesliga) at a young age. You can laugh all you want but the truth is Germany destroyed a Neymar-led Brazil with 7-1 win with a majority squad of Bundesliga players.

Let's stop with the sentimental things, if a lot of these South American players felt like their domestic leagues was enough of a challenge the best wouldn't be going to Europe. Out of those FIFA Club World Cup competitions (continental champions) , the overwhelming majority has been won by European sides since its inception.

 

[Premeditated]

Neymar at 20 was better than what Dembele is at now? At 20, Neymar was still in South America which has some respectable teams and good competition at club level but it's not Europe but at 20 Dembele has played in the Champions League and meaningful games has broken into a very talented French first team which is in my opinion the second best side in Europe after WC Champion Germany.

He has been a star in the Bundesliga which is a top 3 league in the world and was named on the Bundesliga team of the season last season. Neymar is a better player NOW but let's not say that Neymar at 20 is better than Dembele now who is 20 years old.

He has a similar game to Neymar can dribble has pace. I mean it is kind of unfair to expect him to be as good as Neymar (3rd best player in the world). You can ask that question of which player can add more to the rest of the world, you won't find anybody except for Messi or Ronaldo. So it's extremely unfair to ask Dembele NOW at 20 years old to essentially surpass the third best player in the world.

plus Dembele has better stats this year as a 20 year old than Neymar did in his first year at Barca at 21. Considering Ney had prime Messi and an elite midfield to release the pressure. Dembele had Castro and Kagawa and a below average rb behind him

 

[Quarquar]

I am not saying Dembele is better because he is simply European but he was exposed to better competition while playing in European domestic leagues (Ligue 1 and Bundesliga) at a young age. You can laugh all you want but the truth is Germany destroyed a Neymar-led Brazil with 7-1 win with a majority squad of Bundesliga players.

Let's stop with the sentimental things, if a lot of these South American players felt like their domestic leagues was enough of a challenge the best wouldn't be going to Europe. Out of those FIFA Club World Cup competitions (continental champions) , the overwhelming majority has been won by European sides since its inception.

Get your facts straight. Neymar DID NOT play in Brazil's 7-1 loss to Germany. He was injured in the previous match against Colombia after Zuniga kneed him in the back.

 

[Frangala]

Get your facts straight. Neymar DID NOT play in Brazil's 7-1 loss to Germany. He was injured in the previous match against Colombia after Zuniga kneed him in the back.

I stand corrected. But a squad full of Bundesliga players won the last WC so I don't know why playing in some South American league rivals playing in the Bundesliga which was my main point in terms of the competition that both faced at an early age and excelled. Neymar was playing in South America at Dembele's age while Dembele was balling in Germany which is superior.

 

[e001]

I am not saying Dembele is better because he is simply European but he was exposed to better competition while playing in European domestic leagues (Ligue 1 and Bundesliga) at a young age. That's all. A South American team has not won a WC since Brazil 2002. So it's not far fetched to say that European club football offers more competition. You can laugh all you want but the truth is Germany destroyed a Neymar-led Brazil with 7-1 with a majority squad of Bundesliga players.

He was only exposed to european competition early because he is european and you are giving "best young team awards" as examples as to why Dembelé was better than Neymar at 20 when I gave you titles and much better accolades that you have no knowledge of but you chose to discredit anyway .
It's a consensus that Ligue 1 is mediocre and the Bundesliga is terrible, when was the last time a team from germany did well even in the europa league besides Bayern and Dortmund? It's as much of a farmer's league as Ligue 1.
"A South American team has not won a WC since Brazil 2002" yeah that's 3 world cups and Argentina was in the final in the last one, one Higuaín fukk up away from winning it but that's besides the point and probably the weakest argument, Neymar wasn't even playing in that game and Germany had 7 players from Bayern starting, one from Arsenal, one from Real Madrid, one from Lazio, only Howedes, the weakest link, played in the Bundesliga and was not a Bayern player.

Let's stop with the sentimental things, if a lot of these South American players felt like their domestic leagues was enough of a challenge the best wouldn't be going to Europe.

Or maybe because there's more money in europe

Out of those FIFA Club World Cup competitions (continental champions) , the overwhelming majority has been won by European sides since its inception.

That's the absolutely best team from europe, what's even your point?
A top team in south america would never come close to losing a league to Tolouse, Frankfurt, Hamburg, Lille and other shytty teams like these.

 

[e001]

double

 

[Frangala]

He was only exposed to european competition early because he is european .
It's a consensus that Ligue 1 is mediocre and the Bundesliga is terrible, when was the last time a team from germany did well even in the europa league besides Bayern and Dortmund? It's as much of a farmer's league as Ligue 1.
"A South American team has not won a WC since Brazil 2002" yeah that's 3 world cups and Argentina was in the final in the last one, one Higuaín fukk up away from winning it but that's besides the point and probably the weakest argument, Neymar wasn't even playing in that game and Germany had 7 players from Bayern starting, one from Arsenal, one from Real Madrid, one from Lazio, only Howedes, the weakest link, played in the Bundesliga and was not a Bayern player.



Or maybe because there's more money in europe



That's the absolutely best team from europe, what's even your point?
A top team in south america would never come close to losing a league to Tolouse, Frankfurt, Hamburg, Lille and other shytty teams like these.

Semantics. Bayern is part of the Bundesliga isn't it? now you want to split hairs and Dembele happened to play for the second best team in that league. Would you fault someone for playing for either Real or Barca when La Liga was a two-team league prior to the recent emergence of Atletico or Sevilla? Or somehow penalize/diminish the success of player X because he happens to play in one of the two best teams of a "two-team" league. So playing for Real or Barca before the emergence of Atletico, Sevilla or Villareal somehow diminished the one's great accomplishments because La Liga was "two-team" league?

At the end of the day Germany are WC Champs and most of their squad is made up of Bundesliga players, it doesn't matter if they all come from only Bayern/Dortmund. Are people critical of the great Spanish national teams because most of their players come from either Barca or Real? Does it somehow lessen their great accomplishments in the late 2000s? Is La Liga tarnished because at that time it was a two-team league same time Spain was dominating?

Your argument does not hold. Yes, Germany is a two-team league and Dembele happened to have excelled in one of the best two teams with both teams being competitive in Europe and making it to Champions League Finals in recent years.

Has it ever occurred to you that the money in Europe is somehow the result of having a good product and having the cream of the crop around the world trying to go play/playing in that continent. You act as if the great amount money in European football is totally detached to the quality of football being played in that continent, and quality is determined by the amount of talent/world class players you have on the pitch.

If it was all about the money itself, then China/Middle Eastern leagues would be a threat to European dominance in terms of attracting the best players in the world but those leagues are considered the graveyard so much so that Barca signing a guy like Paulinho raised a lot of eyebrows even though he had been playing really well in China. Some national team coaches won't even consider a player who plays his club football in China or Middle East. Despite the huge influx of money, they are still seen as non competitive.


You are using a top team in South America to compare it to Lille or Toulouse. How about you compare a mid table team in the Brazilian league and compare it to mid-table team in Germany or France. I think it would be a better litmus test. I am pretty sure a mid-table club from Germany or France will wash a mid-table club from a South American country.

"That's the absolute best team from Europe" My point is South America is not at the level of Europe in terms of competitiveness and quality of football. If the best from Europe constantly beats the best from South America the ovewhelming majority of the time. Then it settles the debate about the difference in quality of club football that Dembele and Neymar were exposed to at a young age. Instead you want to compare apples and oranges (Santos vs. Toulouse) how does that make sense?

 

[BigMan]

the reason between difference in quality between south america and europe is money

 

[Black Nate Grey]

Dembele is not better than Neymar was at his age.
Ney has been carrying Brasil since the age of 19 or so.

Neymar at 20 is:
A better finisher (by far, this isn't even close)
A better playmaker. Dembele for all his talent makes dumb decisions on the ball sometimes. Imo Dembele is slightly more talented than Mbappe but Mbappe is the better player because he plays smart.
A leader. Both Santos and Brasil.

Dembele is a better dribbler than Ney was at that age though. Neymar had better 'flair' dribbles, Dembele dribbles actually drive the team forward. Think of it like Messi's direct dribbling vs Robinho highlight reel dribbling.

Dembele is more two footed, though Neymar was quite two footed as well just not to extent that Dembele is.

Dembele definitely has the potential to surpass Neymar though.

 

[dutchie]

Yeah Neymar was better at age 20 then Dembele is now. Which is an unfair comparison. Neymar at 20 was better then 90% of players currently period. Doesnt say anything about Dembele.

Plus ya Barca hate is really showing. I mean to even ask why Dembele would want to move to Barca or to suggest its would be a stupid move from him is just retarded. Im not even gonna counter those statements.

 

[NSSVO]

Brehs, we shall see how this works out.

 

[Bboystyle]

Watch us work :seckle:

i watched yall work...many L's

 

[The Eliminator]

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