Essential The Official Football (Soccer) Thread - The Slotification of Liverpool is nearly complete

[dennis roadman]

i also didnt realize i posted this in the stupid WC thread, so im reposting it in here because this thread is its rightful home:

let's recap scolari's joke of a career
1998: brings a copa libertadores to palmeiras as they are crowned TEAM OF THE CENTURY in retrospect, it's
possibly the only time he's fooled people into thinking he can manage
2002: pretends to coach a WC-winning team that has the greatest striker of all time and other legends scattered throughout
2004: tries to emulate previous "success" and fails with c. ronaldo, losing AT HOME (foreshadowing) to a bus full of greeks
2006: maybe he's not an idiot..portugal reaches WC semis oh wait, they only had to beat england on pens. they were next in line for that tradition, mere papering over the cracks
2008: oh look, dominated by germany
2008: drummed out of chelsea by january, never even bothered to learn english or put on a fukking suit.
2009: coaches in uzbekistan, earns $20 mil worth of terrorist and oil money, but manages to make it to the hallowed round of 16 in the asian champions league
2010: return to palmeiras, a copa do brasil ...just the dead rat bouncing off the floor, fukk off phil
2013: confed cup victory! we did it! felipão and brazil are back!
2014:

 

[SubZeroDegrees]

They about to destroy and rebuild, Germany did the same thing after Euro 2000.

Grant Wahl I think had an article about this years ago, Brazil started developing athletes and not footballers.

They fact they were playing Fred up top should've been enough evidence they were shyt. Argentina is another one that needs that wake up call. England...nvm they had theirs in 2010.

I was about to post about Germany commitment to academies. Happy to see MLS focusing on it instead of the Superdraft. US could only get better with it.

 

[SubZeroDegrees]

2018 WC will be so euro dominated.

Brazil and Argentina going to be
Uruguay and Chile won't be a factor
Colombia might.

 

[Diddly Drogba]

 

[noodles]

2018 might be the worst world cup for a long time...Russia?

 

[TTT]

Whenever i saw Ramires being subbed in for one of the wide forwards i wasIt had come to this for Brazil. The coaching lacks imagination too, after the 2010 WC they seemed to be in shock and did not know how to deal with the shock of the loss. Del Bosque and Scolari both preferred continuity and called up virtually the same players but they could have used some new ideas.The Confed cup was the peak for this current side as it was with the 2005/06 team that at least managed to put on a show. The current German team are like 8 years in the making, from the change in style instituted by Klinsman in 06 and players like Lahm,Podolski,Schweinsteiger ,Metersacker introduced then to successive generations that have been integrated in the team almost seamlessly and it did not look like they were going to be in a final with all the injuries.

 

[SCORCH]

i also didnt realize i posted this in the stupid WC thread, so im reposting it in here because this thread is its rightful home:

let's recap scolari's joke of a career
1998: brings a copa libertadores to palmeiras as they are crowned TEAM OF THE CENTURY in retrospect, it's
possibly the only time he's fooled people into thinking he can manage
2002: pretends to coach a WC-winning team that has the greatest striker of all time and other legends scattered throughout
2004: tries to emulate previous "success" and fails with c. ronaldo, losing AT HOME (foreshadowing) to a bus full of greeks
2006: maybe he's not an idiot..portugal reaches WC semis oh wait, they only had to beat england on pens. they were next in line for that tradition, mere papering over the cracks
2008: oh look, dominated by germany
2008: drummed out of chelsea by january, never even bothered to learn english or put on a fukking suit.
2009: coaches in uzbekistan, earns $20 mil worth of terrorist and oil money, but manages to make it to the hallowed round of 16 in the asian champions league
2010: return to palmeiras, a copa do brasil ...just the dead rat bouncing off the floor, fukk off phil
2013: confed cup victory! we did it! felipão and brazil are back!
2014:

Winning the Confed Cup was the worst thing to happen to Brazil.

 

[Scottie Drippin]

Brazil has shown the ability to restructure based on past defeats and change their style to whatever gives them results. Past Brazil teams always had a player who could take over a game particularly the forwards they had Romario,Ronaldo,Rivaldo and Ronaldinho in succession and a lot of those guys played together, even Kaka and Robinho could pull some strings when required. Current Brazil players are underwhelming they are like lab produced robotic dudes who do not have the imagination of their 90s players and that includes the 94 team that was very pragmatic.Other than Neymar a lot of those kids probably owe a lot more to Portuguese,French or Spanish sides for their football education whereas with the past generations Europe was more like a finishing school.

Except this isn't true. This is the problem. You thinking that this is the problem is the problem. It's why they lost today. Lost in 2010. Lost in 2006, each loss more alarming and damning in the process. Ranging from merely disappointing in 2006, to appalling in 2010, to an outright debacle on this very evening.

You name Ronaldinho as some sort of past solution. Ronaldinho is like a grandmothers herbal remedies. You remember some random leaves poured into boiling curing you of so many ailments but forget to consider that it was something so simple as a days worth of rest and balanced meals that actually did the trick.

Ronaldinho was there in 2006. As was Kaka. Two of the absolute, just, most BRILLIANT players ever. They were there. I know it's hard to remember. A defensive midfielder combined with a metronomic passer (granted, two of the very best at each position) rendered them invisible.

Ronaldinho is the issue. He symbolizes it, epitomizes it. We call Ronaldinho a great many things but have never paused to consider and call him unfortunate?

The game changed. Dramatically, and almost suddenly. I'm not breaking any new ground here. The death of the trequartista has been chronicled endlessly, but it's true, and it's what has spelled doom for Brazil. Because for the rest of the world that position dying meant it was time for something else, for Brazil, it meant their game had died.

Ronaldinho, like Brazil, retreated within himself, held onto his game, whilst on the opposite end of the very same midfield the modern standard began to blossom.

The world, and even worse Brazil, grew to believe there bread and butter wasn't bread and butter at all, but instead some beautiful delicacy worthy of a michelin star.

It wasn't there forwards taking over the game. It was that, before zonal marking and gegenpressing and defending dodecahedrons with angles of varying degrees, Brazil's midfield could take over the game on class alone.

But the definition of class has changed.

This result is every bit as telling, forboding, and apocalyptic as that day in London when Puskas forever placed a hand around the heart of English football. He didn't rip it you. You can never do that. Children will always dream, and eleven of those children grow up to be men who play for their country. He didn't rip the heart out, but his fingers remain clasped around it never allowing it to beat the same way ever again.

You can change a football team. You can change strategy.

You cannot change identity.

At their very core Brazil's footballing ideals are wrong.

Their religion is wrong.

 

[Max B]

Whenever i saw Ramires being subbed in for one of the wide forwards i wasIt had come to this for Brazil. The coaching lacks imagination too, after the 2010 WC they seemed to be in shock and did not know how to deal with the shock of the loss. Del Bosque and Scolari both preferred continuity and called up virtually the same players but they could have used some new ideas.The Confed cup was the peak for this current side as it was with the 2005/06 team that at least managed to put on a show. The current German team are like 8 years in the making, from the change in style instituted by Klinsman in 06 and players like Lahm,Podolski,Schweinsteiger ,Metersacker introduced then to successive generations that have been integrated in the team almost seamlessly and it did not look like they were going to be in a final with all the injuries.

Look at the oranje squad all. Veterans mixed with first time world cup debutants. Scolari is a stubborn old man taking players like bernard over lucas moura(i dont care if he bad season lucas actually plays in respetable league compared to the ukranian league) Coutinho is another player who shouldve made it based on his form this past season alone. This lost is going to change brazilian footnball thats for sure.

 

[dennis roadman]

Winning the Confed Cup was the worst thing to happen to Brazil.

hosting it was just as harmful imo. for myriad reasons

@Don Rhymus you are right in a way, but the most pressing ( get it?) issue was the coaching.

i never expected brazil to win the cup, i didnt even expect them to beat germany today, but to lose like this falls on phil's shoulders. he just rolled the ball out with a slapped together xi and fell victim to what you're talking about - brazilian willpower and mindset would triumph

i dont think the problem is as deeply embedded as you think it is. i think it was deeply embedded into the staff

 

[Scottie Drippin]

hosting it was just as harmful imo. for myriad reasons

@Don Rhymus you are right in a way, but the most pressing ( get it?) issue was the coaching.

i never expected brazil to win the cup, i didnt even expect them to beat germany today, but to lose like this falls on phil's shoulders. he just rolled the ball out with a slapped together xi and fell victim to what you're talking about - brazilian willpower and mindset would triumph

i dont think the problem is as deeply embedded as you think it is. i think it was deeply embedded into the staff

Yeah, the coaching was the worst.

Question for you and @Hollister who would know this way more than I could poetically wax on about

Do you think there will be a mindset in the country to do as Germany did and commit, from ground up, to focus the nation towards one style of play geared towards success in the modern game to shape a new team? Do you think it's necessary? Clearly in my paragraphs I think it is.

Also, do you think there are midfielders right now who could make them proper dogs on the world stage and not the dog and pony show I fully fear them becoming?

I understand the Brazilian fear. Argentina is what happens when your national team has no identity and is just an amalgamation of various foreign ideals. Argentina are, and honestly since the 90's, playing really shyt football.

Do you think a footballing renessaince of the scale of the Germans is possible? Do you think it necessary?

 

[dem bath salts]

Just made out with a english chick whose a huge chelsea fan. Guess i have a premier team to support now

P.s. @ brazil

 

[dennis roadman]

Yeah, the coaching was the worst.

Question for you and @Hollister who would know this way more than I could poetically wax on about

Do you think there will be a mindset in the country to do as Germany did and commit, from ground up, to focus the nation towards one style of play geared towards success in the modern game to shape a new team? Do you think it's necessary? Clearly in my paragraphs I think it is.

Also, do you think there are midfielders right now who could make them proper dogs on the world stage and not the dog and pony show I fully fear them becoming?

I understand the Brazilian fear. Argentina is what happens when your national team has no identity and is just an amalgamation of various foreign ideals. Argentina are, and honestly since the 90's, playing really shyt football.

Do you think a footballing renessaince of the scale of the Germans is possible? Do you think it necessary?

possible, necessary, and Dilma will probably donate 100% of her salary to make it happen just to keep her party in power

the biggest issue will be finding someone who can galvanize the country with an "acceptable" style of play

in terms of natural talent to be found, it's there, but it needs to be shaped and guided to be productive for the national selection

we're all speaking very dramatically here, but if they had lost 2-1 or even 3-1 with some good saves by neuer and a few crossbars, we would be speaking strictly of how scolari is a fool, costa should've stayed at home, and the talent they currently have just needs guidance

 

[TTT]

Except this isn't true. This is the problem. You thinking that this is the problem is the problem. It's why they lost today. Lost in 2010. Lost in 2006, each loss more alarming and damning in the process. Ranging from merely disappointing in 2006, to appalling in 2010, to an outright debacle on this very evening.

You name Ronaldinho as some sort of past solution. Ronaldinho is like a grandmothers herbal remedies. You remember some random leaves poured into boiling curing you of so many ailments but forget to consider that it was something so simple as a days worth of rest and balanced meals that actually did the trick.

Ronaldinho was there in 2006. As was Kaka. Two of the absolute, just, most BRILLIANT players ever. They were there. I know it's hard to remember. A defensive midfielder combined with a metronomic passer (granted, two of the very best at each position) rendered them invisible.

Ronaldinho is the issue. He symbolizes it, epitomizes it. We call Ronaldinho a great many things but have never paused to consider and call him unfortunate?

The game changed. Dramatically, and almost suddenly. I'm not breaking any new ground here. The death of the trequartista has been chronicled endlessly, but it's true, and it's what has spelled doom for Brazil. Because for the rest of the world that position dying meant it was time for something else, for Brazil, it meant their game had died.

Ronaldinho, like Brazil, retreated within himself, held onto his game, whilst on the opposite end of the very same midfield the modern standard began to blossom.

The world, and even worse Brazil, grew to believe there bread and butter wasn't bread and butter at all, but instead some beautiful delicacy worthy of a michelin star.

It wasn't there forwards taking over the game. It was that, before zonal marking and gegenpressing and defending dodecahedrons with angles of varying degrees, Brazil's midfield could take over the game on class alone.

But the definition of class has changed.

This result is every bit as telling, forboding, and apocalyptic as that day in London when Puskas forever placed a hand around the heart of English football. He didn't rip it you. You can never do that. Children will always dream, and eleven of those children grow up to be men who play for their country. He didn't rip the heart out, but his fingers remain clasped around it never allowing it to beat the same way ever again.

You can change a football team. You can change strategy.

You cannot change identity.

At their very core Brazil's footballing ideals are wrong.

Their religion is wrong.

I dont think Brazil are insular about football if anything they are willing to try anything to win trophies, the last 2 teams to win tropies i.e 94 and 02 teams are as different in mentality as Chelsea are from Barcelona. They always had players at the top of their game , you could argue that from Romario through to Ronaldinho they always had one of the top 3 players and more often than not these guys would deliver in the finals and Ronaldinho did so when he had Ronaldo and RIvaldo who bore a greater burden to perform. He wasnt the absolute reason they won but he performed well enough to carry the attacking burden with the other 2. If anything Argentina would probably be the team that have suffered more than Brazil because they relied a lot more on their number 10s to pull the strings and they don't look the same without those guys in their teams.

The Brazilians IMO never had a Xavi type of midfielder the ones who could conceivably played that role ended playing for Portugal and Spain , the template for as long as i have watched them are physical midfielders in the middle of the park complemented by a bunch of forwards. the 2002 team had them so did the 06 , 10 and this side.What has changed is that there just arent that many creative forwards for them ,Oscar and Willian are lauded for their industry much more than their creativity and they are like the typical Brazilian forwards they have been relying on. Dunga in some ways recognized this and set them up to take that into account, he wasnt any different from Van Marjwick only that he had Felipe Melo on his side and the Dutch abandoning their principles took advantage of their mistakes. I doubt they would have been defensively unorganized as this current team. I think what constitutes Brazilian football identity carries a huge Nike influenced joga bonito halo that isn't reflective of what they have produced over the years.

 

[nyknick]

Brazil should just give the job to Bielsa, problem solved.

Spoiler

Or let my man Zdenek Zeman get in there and show them what football is