Taking scriptures on face value

[Hip-Hop-Bulls]

like the bible and quran. both books clearly say they are up to be interpreted...

john 16:25 "I have said these things to you in figures of speech. The hour is coming when I will no longer speak to you in figures, but will tell you plainly of the Father"

2 timothy 3:16-17 "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

Rules of Interpretation of the quran

3:7 - He it is who has revealed the book to thee; some of it's verses are decisive - they are the basis of the book - and others are allegorical. Then those in whose hearts is perversity follow the part of it which is allegorical, seeking to mislead, and seeking to give it(their own) interpretation. And none knows it's interpretation save Allah, and those firmly rooted in knowledge. They say: we believe in it, it is all from our lord. And none mind except men of understanding.

knowledge is the foundation for all things in existence. Taking things on face value can lead you on the wrong path. Examples, muslims with jihad, and european christians and jews with "Let us make man in our image...".

think before one acts, or act before thinking. both manifest understanding, although one will bring about a misunderstanding. And crossing the street before observing(doing the knowledge)can cost you your life.

Taking the bible, quran or anything in general on face value means one is not doing the knowledge and not using common sense. The oldest person in the bible is melchizedek who has no beginning nor ending. no mother or father, etc...but he was a human. This is something one will not take on face value if he/she uses the brain they were given to think...and not blindly worship. Mary getting pregnant by a ghost, jesus being resurrected on the 3rd day. The dimensions of the ark in exodus 25:10. These are some of the things that need proper study in order to get the understanding.

quran

56:59 Is it you that create it or are we the creator

39:6 He created you (all) from a single person: then created, of like nature, his mate; and he sent down for you eight head of cattle in pairs: He makes you, in the wombs of your mothers, in stages, one after another, in three veils of darkness. such is Allah, your Lord and Cherisher: to Him belongs (all) dominion. There is no god but He: then how are ye turned away (from your true Centre)?

30:30 So set thy face for religion, being upright, the nature made by Allah in which He has created men. There is no altering Allah’s creation. That is the right religion — but most people know not —

50:16 It was We who created man and We know what dark suggestions his soul makes to him: for We are nearer to him than (his) jugular vein

In conclusion. Always do research and don't take things on face value(believe).

But what do you guys think. Should one believe in scripture word for word, or take scripture, do some research, come with an understanding and apply it to their life?

 

[Juno]

But what do you guys think. Should one believe in scripture word for word, or take scripture, do some research, come with an understanding and apply it to their life?

I question whether one should believe in, rely on, or simply mingle with words from scripture, or books of anykind in order to cling to certain "belief about what it says about x,y & y" and then apply that to ones life?

In short, i question whether one should live their life out of "belief" at all?

 

[Hip-Hop-Bulls]

I question whether one should believe in, rely on, or simply mingle with words from scripture, or books of anykind in order to cling to certain "belief about what it says about x,y & y" and then apply that to ones life?

In short, i question whether one should live their life out of "belief" at all?

Everything is connected in one way or another so you can learn something from pretty much anything. Like if you take the number 9 and multiply it by any number, and you keep adding all those numbers until you get to single digits, it'll equal 9. Showing and proving that all things are 1 and are connected. If you take the number 1 and multiply it by any number, the 1 becomes that number, showing and proving that knowledge can found anywhere.

I'm one who says we shouldn't believe anything, instead we should seek knowledge. belief is nowhere to be found in the operating system of life which is math, and it can be debunked and destroyed by someone with knowledge. A person or people with some power that misuses it and want to remain on top will teach others the art of believing instead of critical thinking.

 

[CouldntBeMeTho]

man if anybody really believes scripture should be taken word for word, let me know. ill come through and post a bunch of messed up scriptures that should ABSOLUTELY NOT be taken as such...

 

[Orbital-Fetus]

man if anybody really believes scripture should be taken word for word, let me know. ill come through and post a bunch of messed up scriptures that should ABSOLUTELY NOT be taken as such...

come through with it.

 

[Julius Skrrvin]

if you take any scripture at face value you should jump foot first into a meat grinder

 

[Soymuscle Mike]

Here's my problem when regious folk tell me I shouldn't take the actual stories literally:

So the stories themselves should be taken figuratively...


..But the part about a skydaddy and the skywalking skyson(s) watching/knowing/planning everything that we do and judging us for it, occasionally reaching out to a select few - that's all real

It becomes a very slippery slope if I'm supposed to take people picking and choosing their favorite parts of the book seriously. IMO either you believe in that stuff or you don't Ain't no such thing as halfway religious people. If I find out you don't really practise what the books preach or you conveniently choose not to take certain parts of the books seriously you're just as Atheist as I am

 

[TruStyle]

@ Holy books claiming to be the divine word.

Written by man

 

[CouldntBeMeTho]

idk maybe you should take these at face value

Top 10 Worst Bible Passages.

Perhaps you will disagree:

1."I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man. She must be quiet." (1 Timothy 2:12)

2."Go, now, attack Amalek, and deal with him and all that he has under the ban. Do not spare him, but kill men and women, children and infants, oxen and sheep, camels and asses." (1 Samuel 15:3)

3."You shall not let a sorceress live." (Exodus 22:18)

4."Happy those who seize your children and smash them against a rock." (Psalm 137:9)

5."When the men would not listen to his host, the husband seized his concubine and thrust her outside to them. They had relations with her and abused her all night until the following dawn, when they let her go. Then at daybreak the woman came and collapsed at the entrance of the house in which her husband was a guest, where she lay until the morning. When her husband rose that day and opened the door of the house to start out again on his journey, there lay the woman, his concubine, at the entrance of the house with her hands on the threshold. He said to her, 'Come, let us go'; but there was no answer. So the man placed her on an ass and started out again for home." (Judges 19:25-28)

6."And the males likewise gave up natural relations with females and burned with lust for one another. Males did shameful things with males and thus received in their own persons the due penalty for their perversity." (Romans 1:27)

7."Jephthah made a vow to the Lord. 'If you deliver the Ammonites into my power,' he said, 'whoever comes out of the doors of my house to meet me when I return in triumph from the Ammonites shall belong to the Lord. I shall offer him up as a holocaust.' ... When Jephthah returned to his house in Mizpah, it was his daughter who came forth, playing the tambourines and dancing. She was an only child: he had neither son nor daughter besides her. When he saw her, he rent his garments and said, 'Alas, daughter, you have struck me down and brought calamity upon me. For I have made a vow to the Lord and I cannot retract'." (Judges 11:30-1, 34-5)

8."Then God said: 'Take your son Isaac, your only one, whom you love, and go to the land of Moriah. There you shall offer him up as a holocaust on a height that I will point out to you'."(Genesis 22:2)

9."Wives should be subordinate to their husbands as to the Lord." (Ephesians 5:22)

10."Slaves, be subject to your masters with all reverence, not only to those who are good and equitable but also to those who are perverse." (1 Peter 2:18)


some from the quron

10. A husband has sex with his wife, as a plow goes into a field.

The Quran in Sura (Chapter) 2:223 says:

Your women are your fields, so go into your fields whichever way you like . . . . (MAS Abdel Haleem, The Qur’an, Oxford UP, 2004)

9. Husbands are a degree above their wives.

The Quran in Sura 2:228 says:

. . . Wives have the same rights as the husbands have on them in accordance with the generally known principles. Of course, men are a degree above them in status . . . (Sayyid Abul A’La Maududi, The Meaning of the Qur’an, vol. 1, p. 165)

8. A male gets a double share of the inheritance over that of a female.

The Quran in Sura 4:11 says:

The share of the male shall be twice that of a female . . . . (Maududi, vol. 1, p. 311)

7. A woman’s testimony counts half of a man’s testimony.

The Quran in Sura 2:282 says:

And let two men from among you bear witness to all such documents [contracts of loans without interest]. But if two men be not available, there should be one man and two women to bear witness so that if one of the women forgets (anything), the other may remind her. (Maududi, vol. 1, p. 205).

6. A wife may remarry her ex—husband if and only if she marries another man and then this second man divorces her.

The Quran in Sura 2:230 says:

And if the husband divorces his wife (for the third time), she shall not remain his lawful wife after this (absolute) divorce, unless she marries another husband and the second husband divorces her. [In that case] there is no harm if they [the first couple] remarry . . . . (Maududi, vol. 1, p. 165)

5. Slave—girls are sexual property for their male owners.

The Quran in Sura 4:24 says:

And forbidden to you are wedded wives of other people except those who have fallen in your hands [as prisoners of war] . . . (Maududi, vol. 1, p. 319).

4. A man may be polygamous with up to four wives.

The Quran in Sura 4:3 says:

And if you be apprehensive that you will not be able to do justice to the orphans, you may marry two or three or four women whom you choose. But if you apprehend that you might not be able to do justice to them, then marry only one wife, or marry those who have fallen in your possession. (Maududi, vol. 1, p. 305)

3. A husband may simply get rid of one of his undesirable wives.

The Quran in Sura 4:129 says:

It is not within your power to be perfectly equitable in your treatment with all your wives, even if you wish to be so; therefore, [in order to satisfy the dictates of Divine Law] do not lean towards one wife so as to leave the other in a state of suspense. (Maududi, vol. 1, p. 381)

2. Husbands may hit their wives even if the husbands merely fear highhandedness in their wives (quite apart from whether they actually are highhanded).

The Quran in Sura 4:34 says:

4:34 . . . If you fear highhandedness from your wives, remind them [of the teaching of God], then ignore them when you go to bed, then hit them. If they obey you, you have no right to act against them. God is most high and great. (Haleem, emphasis added)

1. Mature men are allowed to marry prepubescent girls.

The Quran in Sura 65:1, 4 says:

65:1 O Prophet, when you [and the believers] divorce women, divorce them for their prescribed waiting—period and count the waiting—period accurately . . . 4 And if you are in doubt about those of your women who have despaired of menstruation, (you should know that) their waiting period is three months, and the same applies to those who have not menstruated as yet. As for pregnant women, their period ends when they have delivered their burden. (Maududi, vol. 5, pp. 599 and 617, emphasis added)

 

[Hip-Hop-Bulls]

idk maybe you should take these at face value

Top 10 Worst Bible Passages.

Perhaps you will disagree:

1."I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man. She must be quiet." (1 Timothy 2:12)

2."Go, now, attack Amalek, and deal with him and all that he has under the ban. Do not spare him, but kill men and women, children and infants, oxen and sheep, camels and asses." (1 Samuel 15:3)

3."You shall not let a sorceress live." (Exodus 22:18)

4."Happy those who seize your children and smash them against a rock." (Psalm 137:9)

5."When the men would not listen to his host, the husband seized his concubine and thrust her outside to them. They had relations with her and abused her all night until the following dawn, when they let her go. Then at daybreak the woman came and collapsed at the entrance of the house in which her husband was a guest, where she lay until the morning. When her husband rose that day and opened the door of the house to start out again on his journey, there lay the woman, his concubine, at the entrance of the house with her hands on the threshold. He said to her, 'Come, let us go'; but there was no answer. So the man placed her on an ass and started out again for home." (Judges 19:25-28)

6."And the males likewise gave up natural relations with females and burned with lust for one another. Males did shameful things with males and thus received in their own persons the due penalty for their perversity." (Romans 1:27)

7."Jephthah made a vow to the Lord. 'If you deliver the Ammonites into my power,' he said, 'whoever comes out of the doors of my house to meet me when I return in triumph from the Ammonites shall belong to the Lord. I shall offer him up as a holocaust.' ... When Jephthah returned to his house in Mizpah, it was his daughter who came forth, playing the tambourines and dancing. She was an only child: he had neither son nor daughter besides her. When he saw her, he rent his garments and said, 'Alas, daughter, you have struck me down and brought calamity upon me. For I have made a vow to the Lord and I cannot retract'." (Judges 11:30-1, 34-5)

8."Then God said: 'Take your son Isaac, your only one, whom you love, and go to the land of Moriah. There you shall offer him up as a holocaust on a height that I will point out to you'."(Genesis 22:2)

9."Wives should be subordinate to their husbands as to the Lord." (Ephesians 5:22)

10."Slaves, be subject to your masters with all reverence, not only to those who are good and equitable but also to those who are perverse." (1 Peter 2:18)


some from the quron

10. A husband has sex with his wife, as a plow goes into a field.

The Quran in Sura (Chapter) 2:223 says:

Your women are your fields, so go into your fields whichever way you like . . . . (MAS Abdel Haleem, The Qur’an, Oxford UP, 2004)

9. Husbands are a degree above their wives.

The Quran in Sura 2:228 says:

. . . Wives have the same rights as the husbands have on them in accordance with the generally known principles. Of course, men are a degree above them in status . . . (Sayyid Abul A’La Maududi, The Meaning of the Qur’an, vol. 1, p. 165)

8. A male gets a double share of the inheritance over that of a female.

The Quran in Sura 4:11 says:

The share of the male shall be twice that of a female . . . . (Maududi, vol. 1, p. 311)

7. A woman’s testimony counts half of a man’s testimony.

The Quran in Sura 2:282 says:

And let two men from among you bear witness to all such documents [contracts of loans without interest]. But if two men be not available, there should be one man and two women to bear witness so that if one of the women forgets (anything), the other may remind her. (Maududi, vol. 1, p. 205).

6. A wife may remarry her ex—husband if and only if she marries another man and then this second man divorces her.

The Quran in Sura 2:230 says:

And if the husband divorces his wife (for the third time), she shall not remain his lawful wife after this (absolute) divorce, unless she marries another husband and the second husband divorces her. [In that case] there is no harm if they [the first couple] remarry . . . . (Maududi, vol. 1, p. 165)

5. Slave—girls are sexual property for their male owners.

The Quran in Sura 4:24 says:

And forbidden to you are wedded wives of other people except those who have fallen in your hands [as prisoners of war] . . . (Maududi, vol. 1, p. 319).

4. A man may be polygamous with up to four wives.

The Quran in Sura 4:3 says:

And if you be apprehensive that you will not be able to do justice to the orphans, you may marry two or three or four women whom you choose. But if you apprehend that you might not be able to do justice to them, then marry only one wife, or marry those who have fallen in your possession. (Maududi, vol. 1, p. 305)

3. A husband may simply get rid of one of his undesirable wives.

The Quran in Sura 4:129 says:

It is not within your power to be perfectly equitable in your treatment with all your wives, even if you wish to be so; therefore, [in order to satisfy the dictates of Divine Law] do not lean towards one wife so as to leave the other in a state of suspense. (Maududi, vol. 1, p. 381)

2. Husbands may hit their wives even if the husbands merely fear highhandedness in their wives (quite apart from whether they actually are highhanded).

The Quran in Sura 4:34 says:

4:34 . . . If you fear highhandedness from your wives, remind them [of the teaching of God], then ignore them when you go to bed, then hit them. If they obey you, you have no right to act against them. God is most high and great. (Haleem, emphasis added)

1. Mature men are allowed to marry prepubescent girls.

The Quran in Sura 65:1, 4 says:

65:1 O Prophet, when you [and the believers] divorce women, divorce them for their prescribed waiting—period and count the waiting—period accurately . . . 4 And if you are in doubt about those of your women who have despaired of menstruation, (you should know that) their waiting period is three months, and the same applies to those who have not menstruated as yet. As for pregnant women, their period ends when they have delivered their burden. (Maududi, vol. 5, pp. 599 and 617, emphasis added)

good post. one should not get it twisted. these books contain a lot of wisdom, but it's recommended the person(s) reading these books approach them with an open mind and common sense

 

[kingofnyc]

if you take any scripture at face value you should jump foot first into a meat grinder