Soto or Nowhere: The Official 2024 New York Yankees Off-Season Thread

Mantis Toboggan M.D.

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This skid started after the first game in the last Sox series, so hopefully it ends after game 1 of this series…. :to: :sadcam:
They lost their mojo in the dodgers series the same way they lost it in the home July series vs Houston in 2022 :snoop:

I'm done.

Going on two weeks since I've watched a single game.
I was listening while at work but tuned out during the orioles series that ended with them giving up 17 runs.
 

Mantle Drunk

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I’m past the point of anger. I just gotta laugh at this shyt now.

The Yankees are not supposed to be dysfunctional like the Knicks have been up until recently. But trust me this organization is dysfunctional.

The winning ways of this organization are gonna be long gone for years and years to come I fear.
 

AnonymityX1000

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Gotta be a masochist to follow this bullshyt
As a Mets fan I gotta say, "You don't know what pain is!" lol
You know the baseball saying, "The ball always finds you." I think this is what's happening to Hal Steinbrenner. It is a point of extreme discomfort for him to fire anyone from the current regime. But Cashman has lost the plot. He seems to be only concerned with the 25 man roster. Every season the Yankees start off great then like every team they get some injuries and fall apart. No depth, it's like he doesn't expect anyone to get hurt or something. So he needs to be let go, but Hal doesn't have the stomach for it. Every season the last few years this has been the scenario. He needs to pull the trigger or this is the doom loop.
 

Mantis Toboggan M.D.

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As a Mets fan I gotta say, "You don't know what pain is!" lol
You know the baseball saying, "The ball always finds you." I think this is what's happening to Hal Steinbrenner. It is a point of extreme discomfort for him to fire anyone from the current regime. But Cashman has lost the plot. He seems to be only concerned with the 25 man roster. Every season the Yankees start off great then like every team they get some injuries and fall apart. No depth, it's like he doesn't expect anyone to get hurt or something. So he needs to be let go, but Hal doesn't have the stomach for it. Every season the last few years this has been the scenario. He needs to pull the trigger or this is the doom loop.
He’s given Hal every reason imaginable to justify firing him over the last 6-7 years and especially ever since Steinbrenner died 14 years ago. No GM in any sport wastes as much money and young players as he does in bad contracts, an inability to develop young players thus requiring huge contracts to free agents in order to compete (they haven’t developed a single home grown pitcher into a star since Andy Pettitte and Judge is the only position player since Jeter), his always betting heavy on washed up and/or injury prone vets all staying healthy and having career years at the same time, and how he seems to think anyone can play any position and how it’s perfectly fine to ignore positions of need for years on end. It’s why we’re all so fed up that the team is shocked that a bullpen entirely comprised of castoffs and an infield with two 34-35 year olds who are injury prone and have been in decline for years, that had no third baseman on the roster, that also won’t commit to its top catching prospect as the primary starter, and had no backup plan for Stanton getting hurt (he missed 140+ games in 2019, 20+ in 2021, 52 in 2022, and 61 last year) might run into trouble.

He’s also created the toxic culture of no accountability that’s the team’s biggest problem. The lack of accountability leads to bad situational baseball, countless mental errors, and no top down leadership since the coaching staff are just puppets which is why the team always folds at the first sign of adversity. That’s as bad as the lack of depth and the injury prone roster.

I get that Hal doesn’t want to be his dad during guys 2-3 weeks into the season and regularly firing guys after 1-3 years, but Cashman should’ve been gone after 2004. He’s botched 3 separate championship windows in a 20 year span. How many general managers can say they’ve done that? A good GM with his resources should have won at least 4 titles from 2004-2023 and he’s got 1. It’s long overdue.
 

AnonymityX1000

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He’s given Hal every reason imaginable to justify firing him over the last 6-7 years and especially ever since Steinbrenner died 14 years ago. No GM in any sport wastes as much money and young players as he does in bad contracts, an inability to develop young players thus requiring huge contracts to free agents in order to compete (they haven’t developed a single home grown pitcher into a star since Andy Pettitte and Judge is the only position player since Jeter), his always betting heavy on washed up and/or injury prone vets all staying healthy and having career years at the same time, and how he seems to think anyone can play any position and how it’s perfectly fine to ignore positions of need for years on end. It’s why we’re all so fed up that the team is shocked that a bullpen entirely comprised of castoffs and an infield with two 34-35 year olds who are injury prone and have been in decline for years, that had no third baseman on the roster, that also won’t commit to its top catching prospect as the primary starter, and had no backup plan for Stanton getting hurt (he missed 140+ games in 2019, 20+ in 2021, 52 in 2022, and 61 last year) might run into trouble.

He’s also created the toxic culture of no accountability that’s the team’s biggest problem. The lack of accountability leads to bad situational baseball, countless mental errors, and no top down leadership since the coaching staff are just puppets which is why the team always folds at the first sign of adversity. That’s as bad as the lack of depth and the injury prone roster.

I get that Hal doesn’t want to be his dad during guys 2-3 weeks into the season and regularly firing guys after 1-3 years, but Cashman should’ve been gone after 2004. He’s botched 3 separate championship windows in a 20 year span. How many general managers can say they’ve done that? A good GM with his resources should have won at least 4 titles from 2004-2023 and he’s got 1. It’s long overdue.
There's no scenario he is getting fired anytime soon on the field. I guess you got to hope he gets in some non related baseball trouble. lol
 

tremonthustler1

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Cashman's not getting fired because Hal's that disconnected from baseball that he wouldn't know who to pursue, so even if he fell out with Cashman (which doesn't appear likely), he'd just hire from within, which means he'd hire Fishman or Naehring or one of these other guys who has been here forever too.

To reshape the front office is to bring in an entirely new one from the ground up expansion team level style.
 

Mantis Toboggan M.D.

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There's no scenario he is getting fired anytime soon on the field. I guess you got to hope he gets in some non related baseball trouble. lol
His 2020-23 was the absolute worst 4 year run I’ve ever seen a general manager have. Literally every move he made turned out bad while he ignored obvious good moves that were there to be made. Then his contract expired after 2022 he made a bunch of excuses, said he took no responsibility for all his moves backfiring, and claimed his process matters more than the results do. All Hal had to do was not offer a new contract :snoop:
 

mson

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He’s given Hal every reason imaginable to justify firing him over the last 6-7 years and especially ever since Steinbrenner died 14 years ago. No GM in any sport wastes as much money and young players as he does in bad contracts, an inability to develop young players thus requiring huge contracts to free agents in order to compete (they haven’t developed a single home grown pitcher into a star since Andy Pettitte and Judge is the only position player since Jeter), his always betting heavy on washed up and/or injury prone vets all staying healthy and having career years at the same time, and how he seems to think anyone can play any position and how it’s perfectly fine to ignore positions of need for years on end. It’s why we’re all so fed up that the team is shocked that a bullpen entirely comprised of castoffs and an infield with two 34-35 year olds who are injury prone and have been in decline for years, that had no third baseman on the roster, that also won’t commit to its top catching prospect as the primary starter, and had no backup plan for Stanton getting hurt (he missed 140+ games in 2019, 20+ in 2021, 52 in 2022, and 61 last year) might run into trouble.

He’s also created the toxic culture of no accountability that’s the team’s biggest problem. The lack of accountability leads to bad situational baseball, countless mental errors, and no top down leadership since the coaching staff are just puppets which is why the team always folds at the first sign of adversity. That’s as bad as the lack of depth and the injury prone roster.

I get that Hal doesn’t want to be his dad during guys 2-3 weeks into the season and regularly firing guys after 1-3 years, but Cashman should’ve been gone after 2004. He’s botched 3 separate championship windows in a 20 year span. How many general managers can say they’ve done that? A good GM with his resources should have won at least 4 titles from 2004-2023 and he’s got 1. It’s long overdue.

I want to start things off by saying that I'm a Mets fan. Could you please answer a few questions, if you can. 1.What pitchers did Cashman fail to develop? 2. How specifically did he fail to develop them? 3. Was there a young prospect he missed out on?
 

Mantis Toboggan M.D.

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I want to start things off by saying that I'm a Mets fan. Could you please answer a few questions, if you can. 1.What pitchers did Cashman fail to develop? 2. How specifically did he fail to develop them? 3. Was there a young prospect he missed out on?
Legit every pitcher that comes up through their farm system ends up crashing and burning or just never makes it up in the first place. He’s been here since 1998 and the closest thing to a success story as far as developing pitchers is either Luis Severino or Jordan Montgomery. Nearly every pitching prospect ends up leaving without getting a second contract, whether it’s Pineda & Eovaldi or Phil Hughes or Joba Chamberlain, there’s genuinely no success story in regards to the Yankees developing a reliable long term starter in part because they sometimes can’t decide how they want to use a guy or because they want him throwing specific pitches as opposed to what he throws well like with Monty. @Remote did a lot of digging last season about how bad they are at player development but the biggest stat that stood out to me was that 10 of his last 14 first round picks never even made it to the major league level.


To elaborate further, I’m not entirely sure how bWAR is calculated but Anthony Volpe was 3rd last August in that stat at 2.5 among position players drafted and developed by the team. It’s a cumulative stat though, like wins above replacement is. Nestor Cortes was 3rd with a 6.1 as of last August too while Phil Hughes was at the top of the list with 11. Last July and August is where you can look in the season thread for more details. Another thing to note is that since their last trip to the World Series, 28 of the other 29 teams have replaced their GM at least once.
 
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Remote

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I'm not trying to be a jerk, but I think rather than going into more detail about the Yankees inability to develop draft picks...just ask yourself "since Brian Cashman has been the general manager of the Yankees, how many homegrown stars has he produced?"

The fact that you'd struggle to name more than 1 or 2 says it all. I don't need to outline specifics.

And we aren't talking about a short period of time here.

Cashman has been the GM for 26 years.
Twenty six.

The bar needs to be higher.
 

Mantis Toboggan M.D.

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I'm not trying to be a jerk, but I think rather than going into more detail about the Yankees inability to develop draft picks...just ask yourself "since Brian Cashman has been the general manager of the Yankees, how many homegrown stars has he produced?"

The fact that you'd struggle to name more than 1 or 2 says it all. I don't need to outline specifics.

And we aren't talking about a short period of time here.

Cashman has been the GM for 26 years.
Twenty six.

The bar needs to be higher.
Brett Gardner being top 2 in bWAR by Yankee position players drafted and developed in house while Phil Hughes is #1 in that stat by starting pitchers should say a lot even if that stat isn’t a be all end all. With his resources, there should be at least 3-4 between position players and pitchers but Judge is really the only one. Gardner is the only Yankee (Judge soon too one would assume unless something goes really wrong) over the last 15 seasons to spend at least 10 straight years on the team and the only one drafted and developed in house to do that since Jeter. Again it screams to their inability to develop their own players.
 
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