HIP-HOP WAS BORN IN THE Bronx in the summer of 1973. To celebrate the music’s 50th anniversary, “Rolling Stone” will be publishing a series of features, historical pieces, op-eds, and lists throughout this year.
IT’S THE MIDDLE OF SUMMER when RZA hops on Zoom one afternoon, but the Wu-Tang architect and Hollywood maven isn’t exactly taking it easy. The Wu-Tang Clan are on tour with Nas for the overseas leg of their New York State of Mind Tour, thrilling crowds while exemplifying the possibilities for hip-hop icons entering middle age. “We have to show the young generation that this can be a lifelong career if you follow the proper path,” he says.
We’re at hip-hop 50. What do you think are some of the biggest things that the community needs to be asking itself heading into the next 50 years?
We’re at the base of the mountain, not at the top. Somebody tweeted recently that “we are still not aligned.” I think we need to align. Maybe get some of the godfathers to come together and talk about what we’re going to do with this culture, and how we’re going to protect it, preserve it, and advance it.
The Rock & Roll Hall of Fame didn’t come immediately [to hip-hop]. We’re happy that now they’re inducting some of us. Great. Let’s make the Hip-Hop Hall of Fame. The BET hip-hop awards is cool. Love BET. But it’s not from us — it’s corporate. We need people of the culture to govern and guide the culture.
The Wu-Tang: American Saga show chronicles your five-year plan for the group, where you planned Wu’s triumph as a group and the solo albums to follow. As you revisited those moments, did it make you wish you had done some things differently?
Not too many things. I think that what I did was necessary. I think that it was ordained. One day, Jay-Z told me, “Yo, I got [the idea for] The Blueprint from you.” At that time, I was headed to Hollywood already. Now, here’s a path, here’s a way it can work. And it continued to work in different regions of the country and with different crews.
What do you think Ol’ Dirty b*stard would be up to these days? I feel like he’d be the most viral person ever.
[Laughs.] He was such a unique talent. He had a couple of left turns that was pretty off course from the person who he really was. I think he would’ve found his way back on his right path, and potentially would’ve been one of the greatest artists alive. Who is the greatest artist alive? Let’s ask ourselves that real quick.
Stevie Wonder.
Stevie Wonder. He’s a great example. It’s like ODB will probably be at least 50 percent at that level of popularity in the world. And whether it was his music, his voice, or whatever he was doing every day, he was going to continue to grow to be a globally recognized energy.
What are the chances of a new Wu-Tang album?
We’re still here on the Earth, all praises due. We’re having a great run on this tour. We’re laughing with each other, sharing music with each other. There were a couple of [tracks] I heard that sound like it’s very possible. [One in particular] I didn’t produce, but I heard it and gave my notes. [Wu producer and DJ] Allah Mathematics went into the studio and took heed to the notes.
Was that something with all the members on the track, or a lot of them?
No, it wasn’t a “Triumph” type of joint. It just had that Wu spirit.
Can you speak to how artists like you and the other Wu-Tang members, Nas, Busta Rhymes, Jay-Z, and others are forging a new path for rappers into middle age?
People thought hip-hop was just youth culture. We had no examples like rock & roll, where you have the Rolling Stones playing into their seventies, or the Eagles or Earth, Wind, and Fire. The brothers you just named, Nas, Jay-Z, Wu-Tang, Busta, Joey Cracks, Outkast, pioneered this global success. Not taking nothing from Run-D.M.C. or Rakim and all of them, who also [pioneered hip-hop in the Eighties], but it was the Nineties when the constant multiplatinums just kept coming.
Now, here we are, living different lifestyles than our parents. At 50 years old, my grandfather was already looking at a wheelchair. You look at Method Man, he got more muscles than ever. He’s on some Hercules shyt at 50. Our strength and our vitality is there.
You play a lot of chess. What are some of your most memorable matches with other notable people?
My most notable is actually with a brother who passed away named Emory Tate. He was a six-time military champion and international master. Chess was bugged out in the Seventies because it was the Cold War. He got to go to different Army bases and play; they said they wanted to kill him and take his brain because he was whipping ass so bad. Tate was this very unique Black man who loved the game, served his country, and was a fascinating individual.
But on a celebrity level, we get busy. Right now, it’s me and my buddy Rob Morgan, and before our brother Jamie Foxx had to take a sit-down for a little while, we had an ongoing rivalry.
People will say it’s a rivalry, but it’s only one person winning. Was it a back-and-forth rivalry?
[Laughs.] I let them tell the rest of it. I am the Abbot.
More at jump
RZA on the Future of Hip-Hop and Why Ol' Dirty Bastard Would Be 'One of the Greatest Artists Alive'
The Wu-Tang legend goes deep on being honored by Rihanna and A$AP, the possibility of a new Wu album, and why rap is “at the base of the mountain, not at the top”
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