RPE (Rate Of Perceived Exertion) Anyone???

[Exiled Martian]

For those who don't know RPE is most commonly used in cardiovascular training but in recent times has been heavily preached into strength training/ lifting circles etc.

Been reading some decent thorough articles on RPE in the hopes of better understanding the philosophy, as I'm just looking for better way to train efficiently & within my physiological limits (permanent exile from snap city).

I'm sure we have all had lingering doubts on the 'how hard should we really train' enigma.... & I really think this system does a good job of answering that question very credibly



What it is....

RPE is a subjective rating that the trainee assigns to the intensity of his/her exercise based on their perception of how hard the physical exertion was. Let’s look at an example where we use 3 ratings of exertion high, medium and low.

If a person has a maximum strength on the bench press of 200 pounds and they lift 100 pounds 1 time then their RPE should be low.

Now let’s say they lift 175 pounds 1 time. Their RPE might be medium.

Finally, let’s say they lift their maximum, 200 pounds once. Their RPE on this will be high.

Weight however is not the only variable that will have an impact on RPE. Number of repetitions will also affect the RPE. If the same person bench pressed 175 pounds 4 repetitions then they might have a RPE of high because of the muscle fatigue that sets in as more reps are performed. There are many other variables that would affect the RPE such as speed of movement, rest time between sets, number of sets etc.

Why you should use it....

Let’s start with why you should use an RPE scale as opposed to a percentage program. Even though percentage programs are easy to use, they’re very limited in how accurate they can be. There are many things that throw off your percentages. The longer you go in a training cycle, the less accurate they become due to your own individual strength adaptation. Each athlete is different because of differences in training history, fast to slow twitch ratios, illnesses, good and bad days, and general sleep patterns. Basically, life happens, and you won’t always be 100 percent when you come in to train.

An RPE overcomes this stuff by allowing you to regulate training based on how hard a weight feels (which is all a percentage tries to do anyway). By using an RPE, you can regulate training more effectively and do so in a way that automatically takes into account all of the individual differences mentioned above.

RPE SCALE...

10: Maximal, no reps left in the tank

9: Last rep is tough but still one rep left in the tank

8: Weight is too heavy to maintain fast bar speed but isn’t a struggle; 2–4 reps left

7: Weight moves quickly when maximal force is applied to the weight; “speed weight”

6: Light speed work; moves quickly with moderate force

5: Most warm-up weights

4: Recovery; usually 20 plus rep sets; not hard but intended to flush the muscle

4-1

Warm-up level of exertion. Should only serve to prepare you for more intense exercise.


NOTE: An RPE below four isn’t important.

Application example using above scale: If you were going to do 5 X 5 at an 8–9 RPE, you know that you’re doing 5 X 5 with a weight that is between an eight RPE and a nine RPE. So you should select a weight that will allow you to do between one and four more reps than the set requires.

How to use it to make progress...

RPE is a tool to rate the physical exertion of your workouts, you can use this to experiment to see what level of RPE you need make the best progress in your training. Other factors will influence what RPE is optimal for your training. Some variable are volume of overall training, years of training experience, strength levels and nutrition. It has been my experience that a person with less than 2 years of strength training can make progress at a higher level of RPE than after they have been training for several years. My recommendation for someone with greater than 1 year of strength training experience would be to keep their average workout RPE at 8 or less. The recovery time seems to stretch out too long as one approaches a rating of 9. RPE could be used in conjunction with a rep/set progression.

Anybody here familiar with (or apply) the concept as opposed to training using percentages/ set numbers to their relevant training program???? Thoughts?

 

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

I am an engineer so I like to be able to keep things objective and repeatable. My weight training program is percentage based. When I get into cardio, I'm definitely going to focus on heart rate based training.

RPE is subjective as hell... 8 on a good day might feel like 12 on a bad day. Going with percentages and logging training helps ensure consistency and progression, and enables you to build a program that's based in numbers but is tailored to your body. For example on bench I found out I'm generally good for about 16-18 equivalent 1RM reps... so like, 80% 1RMx5x4, 72%x4x6, 65%x3x9 etc. Been on this since June and have put about 25lbs on my bench over that period. I do deload regularly though.

JMO

 

[Exiled Martian]

RPE is subjective as hell...8 on a good day might feel like 12 on a bad day. Going with percentages and logging training helps ensure consistency and progression.

I think the above statement is wrong (from what I gathered there is no 12 on the scale. This isn't DBZ Hyperbolic time chamber style training lol), I mean the same could be said for % style training as well ..

Scenario: You had a bad day at work, didn't eat well, disrupted sleeping pattern so therefore your workouts that night seem heavier/harder/ longer regardless, so it would be a make sense to tailor your figures in accordance to the RPE as opposed using your set % as outlined simply because your body won't be able to cope with the hardship etc.

The whole point of RPE is auto-regulation..... a tool that is useful in gauging accurate performance capacity.Whether you are an intermediate lifter or a world class athlete, you should be able to take this system and apply it to your training with the ultimate goal of being able to more accurately predict what your body is going through on a given day.Basically RPE overcomes this stuff by allowing you to regulate training based on how hard a weight feels (which lets be honest is all a percentage tries to do anyway). By using it, you can regulate training more effectively and do so in a way that automatically takes into account all of the vairable individual differences mentioned above.


By the way props on your +25lbs BP increment

I've been stuck at 285 for the past 2 months or so with no progression in sight..looking at my options...gingerely

 

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

I think its better to keep things consistent

If I hit a certain workload on a lift last week (lets say 3x10x200, so 6000lb-reps), if I'm in a bulking/progression mode, I want to at least hit that same workload next week no matter what. Ideally, I want to lift more. Mood and feelings vary, but ultimately u can't progress without consistently.

What I have found though is the body needs periodic breaks. If you are dieting over long periods, like several months, you need to beak it up and have some sanity weeks. Every couple of weeks just take a 1-2 week break and eat at maintenance (I think cheat days are pointless as they don't give your body enough time to truly recover). Same thing with if you are bulking... keep the volume high and strive for progress every trip.... but every now and then, back off and give your CNS and joints a rest with a deload week.

Re: bench... my bench was at a standstill for years. I would just go in and go to failure damn near every rep. Then like every 6th week I would burn out and have to drop the weight. So I did a couple of things. I reached out to some powerlifting brehs.... a lot of them don't train to failure at all. They don't train with anything more than like 80% of their 1RM, but they do a ton of volume. I would keep training within ~60-80% of 1RM and try and hit bench 3x a week. It will feel like a lot at first but u will get used to it. Do it for a couple of weeks and then deload... then jump back to it again. Look up the Smolov routine... the shyt works.

 

[Exiled Martian]

As much as it is a cliché you're right Consistency is key.

Yea I too am a huge believer in recovery via DELOADS, in fact you'll find that running 5-3-1 (Wendler's) you tend to become a deload guru pretty fast as they come around every 4-6 weeks (depending on the version you run) like clockwork. So yea fried joints & CNS's need loving too most def. It would be interesting to get the opinion of someone who actually applies the RPE concept to their training just to see how beneficial (the theory makes sense) it would be over % based training..especially when chasing strength gains (constantly looking to improve 1RM's). Whether Bulking/Cutting Or Recomping I think keeping up Intensity over frequency is the key to decent progress.

Yea typical schoolboy error with the die hard benching...we've all been in that predicament before getting schooled by a seasoned lifter. Yea I too mingle in power lifting circles & they definitely dropped some gems my way as far as advise goes. One thing they keep regurgitating to me is that I need to eat MORE to Lift more, whilst I get jist of it I tend to be thoroughly conflicted at times between wanting to look/stay trim & gorging for gains....lol sacrificial times I guess its literally a coin toss apparently. So luckily its autumn/ winter season soon ala jumper/jacket weather... so I'm just going to sacrifice my concerns for aesthetics & EAT my way to some decent PR's on the big 4 (Squats, Bench, Deads & MOHP). Cut some weight back down early next year.

P.s: Familiar with the likes of specialized programs such as SMolov Jr & Sheiko etc... doubt I'm ready for that sort of intensity as far as lifting experience goes

 

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

See thats the thing.... Smolov JR looks crazy.... but when u get over that initial acclamation hump its

Im not running Smolov... but I based my bench training around it. If I had the time, I would do my big 5 (bench, rows, shoulder press, squats, deads) that way but I just don't... and bench is my only real lagger. I love %age based training though... again I'm a numbers breh so I have spreadsheets made and shyt so I'm comfy with that. But high key I would def give %BT a try on a lagging lift.

 

[Spliff]

Just another way to overcomplicated simple stuff. Hows this different than picking a rep range, using a weight that fits desired rep range, and adjusting weight up/down depending on how you performed?

 

[Adam3000]

@Exiled Martian between this thread and the Calorie 101 thread I think one thing that is clear is you seem to be overthinking your training way too much

Eat Right
Do shyt

The formula is simple. Trying to narrow it down to the "correct" approach will leave you spinning in circles and swimming in pools of contradiction

 

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

And o yea dont forget to lift heavy :udgoraw:

And keep good form and get your protein in.

 

[Exiled Martian]

Just another way to overcomplicated simple stuff. Hows this different than picking a rep range, using a weight that fits desired rep range, and adjusting weight up/down depending on how you performed?

That's the mute point that I was trying to touch on with this concept. As in how do we REALLY know if we are at the end of our physiological tethers, when to shut shiit down etc, there is no accurate way of assimilating this. We usually tend to go by feel & even then in most cases a visit to Snap city for some us is inevitable simply because we push & strive beyond our limits on some on 'b b b but the numbers & percentages on the sheet said so' We all know Over training (Unless you a CT Fletcher sheep) leads to burnout and injuries, but going easy obviously won’t get optimal results. The challenge lies in walking this fine line is truly understanding the intensity and workload being placed on athletes, whether its real or perceived.

Understanding the RPE scale is like having your own intensity meter providing constant feedback on your routine. The scale gives you an idea of how hard you are training and whether you need to pick up the pace or slow it down a bit

@Exiled Martian between this thread and the Calorie 101 thread I think one thing that is clear is you seem to be overthinking your training way too much

Eat Right
Do shyt

The formula is simple. Trying to narrow it down to the "correct" approach will leave you spinning in circles and swimming in pools of contradiction

Don't get me wrong I'm not over thinking anything, just posing a different concept/way to skin said cat, I just found this whole system of RPE style training really intriguing, especially for when periodized training cycles come into play. Decided to post it up to get some mixed opinions on the topic really

And o yea dont forget to lift heavy :udgoraw:

And keep good form and get your protein in.

All day every(other) day fam, don't watch me, watch TV


Shoutout to @puppetmaster ...that Rice dude is a LEGIT deceitful BEAST

 

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

That's the mute point that I was trying to touch on with this concept. As in how do we REALLY know if we are at the end of our physiological tethers, when to shut shiit down etc, there is no accurate way of assimilating this. We usually tend to go by feel & even then in most cases a visit to Snap city for some us is inevitable simply because we push & strive beyond our limits on some on 'b b b but the numbers & percentages on the sheet said so' We all know Over training (Unless you a CT Fletcher sheep) leads to burnout and injuries, but going easy obviously won’t get optimal results. The challenge lies in walking this fine line is truly understanding the intensity and workload being placed on athletes, whether its real or perceived.

Theres a lot we dont know about the human body, but at the same time, theres a little bit we do. If u've been training legit hard for a minute and seeing gains, u know what burnout feels like. Even if u don't, and u psyche urself up to push through it, if u are lifting set amounts and have some goals of progression, if u go to the gym and can't lift the same weight u lifted last month seems obvious to me that something's wrong (if u are in a caloric surplus). When u lift long enough u eventually get to know how long u have before u burn out- it's relatively fixed for each person. So u can plan around it with deloads. This is a proven strategy. Go H.A.M. for 4-6 weeks, go 1-3 weeks in "recovery" mode. No swipes I know plenty of competitive powerlifters and bodybuilders who do that... I have never heard of this RPE stuff.

Understanding the RPE scale is like having your own intensity meter providing constant feedback on your routine. The scale gives you an idea of how hard you are training and whether you need to pick up the pace or slow it down a bit

But u already have several feedback meters. The biggest/most obvious one being the weight and reps u are doing on each exercise in each workout. If 225x10 felt light last week and it feels heavy today, that's feedback. But if u come to the gym, and last week u "felt like" doing 225x10, then today u "feel like" doing 205x8, what is ur real strength level? RPE seems to toss feedback into the bushes, if anything.

 

[Adam3000]

That's the mute point that I was trying to touch on with this concept. As in how do we REALLY know if we are at the end of our physiological tethers, when to shut shiit down etc, there is no accurate way of assimilating this. We usually tend to go by feel & even then in most cases a visit to Snap city for some us is inevitable simply because we push & strive beyond our limits on some on 'b b b but the numbers & percentages on the sheet said so' We all know Over training (Unless you a CT Fletcher sheep) leads to burnout and injuries, but going easy obviously won’t get optimal results. The challenge lies in walking this fine line is truly understanding the intensity and workload being placed on athletes, whether its real or perceived.

Understanding the RPE scale is like having your own intensity meter providing constant feedback on your routine. The scale gives you an idea of how hard you are training and whether you need to pick up the pace or slow it down a bit




Don't get me wrong I'm not over thinking anything, just posing a different concept/way to skin said cat, I just found this whole system of RPE style training really intriguing, especially for when periodized training cycles come into play. Decided to post it up to get some mixed opinions on the topic really



All day every(other) day fam, don't watch me, watch TV


Shoutout to @puppetmaster ...that Rice dude is a LEGIT deceitful BEAST

It was already hinted at above, but RPE breaks down due to the fact that human perception is skewed and innacurate. Numbers are a better measurement.

fukk percentages and all that. Focus on desired rep range. When you hit that rep range with a certain weight, add more weight next time. . If you miss your rep range 2 workouts in a row with a given weight, drop the weight a bit and work back up.

Easy. Requires little thought and human emotions dont come into play

 

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

@Exiled Martian not trying to come at u disrespectfully breh. It's good to build

Simplicity is key though. The less we have to think about the better. shyt is skressful enough

 

[Exiled Martian]

@Exiled Martian not trying to come at u disrespectfully breh. It's good to build

Simplicity is key though. The less we have to think about the better. shyt is skressful enough

No bother at all! its nice to throw about a decent healthy exchange/discussion on certain topics that we are for/against, after all it is what forums are made for!

I've taken what you & @Adam3000 have said ( with a pinch of salt mind you lol) in the closing posts on the argument. In the foreseeable future I'm just toying with the idea of chucking in some RPE style work on my 5-3-1 regimen to help gauge a thorough 1RM progress on the big 3.

I'm aiming for some solid Christmas PB's this year (3PPS Bench/ 4PPS Squat/ 5pps Deads)... ..I really need to hit them milestone figures come December in order to personally deem myself MEET worthy come March 2015