Philosophers of the coli - Why did Plato hate democracy so much?
- Thread starter The Frozen One
- Start date
"Plato (Republic, Book VI) argues that democracy is inferior to various forms of monarchy, aristocracy and even oligarchy on the grounds that democracy tends to undermine the expertise necessary to properly governed societies. In a democracy, he argues, those who are expert at winning elections and nothing else will eventually dominate democratic politics. Democracy tends to emphasize this expertise at the expense of the expertise that is necessary to properly governed societies. The reason for this is that most people do not have the kinds of talents that enable them to think well about the difficult issues that politics involves. But in order to win office or get a piece of legislation passed, politicians must appeal to these people's sense of what is right or not right. Hence, the state will be guided by very poorly worked out ideas that experts in manipulation and mass appeal use to help themselves win office."
Democracy (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)
holy shyt he was right
The Jewnited States
Superstar
plato was a god damn genius
Berniewood Hogan
IT'S BERNIE SANDERS WITH A STEEL CHAIR!
holy shyt he was right
NOT NECESSARILY, BROTHER! OLIGARCHY DOESN'T GUARANTEE ANY MORE "EXPERTISE" DUDE!
BUT IF THEY USE THEIR POWER TO EDUCATE THEMSLEVES THEY CAN HRULE BETTER BROTHER. THEY DONT HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT ELECTIONS EITHER AND PULL SNAKE MOVES AND LIES ON THE PEOPLE DUEDE!
This is true. The other alternative, which was actually the original version of Athenian democracy, but no one cares about now, was sortition. People would be randomly selected for each political position by these machine lotteries. That way there was no campaigning and room for that kind of corruption (obviously there are always risks, but this was seen as a way to minimize them as much as possible.) The argument was that a democracy was really a tyranny of the majority over minorities, and thus anti-democratic (according to their definition of democracy) whereas random selections guaranteed that it was really a "rule of the people." Of course the problem here is the expertise problem- you might get someone with literally no background knowledge or experience in the issues they were deciding.
ltheghost
Payin Debts.... N40
Plato knew exactly what he was talking about. We all know now that elections are glorified popularity contests with huge amounts of money at stake. It isn't about governing. Which is actually simple if anyone pays attention to the needs of the populous. But the introduction of money into the system has created vested interests that are getting favors for favorable legislation. Weed for example should be legal. If alcohol and tobacco are legal why not? But if it was legal it would definitely cut in those industries take, unless they get into the game and when they do it will be legal. People in a modern democracy must understand that they are voting for someone who is not looking out for them but the corporations who are the real "job creators". The people are not the priority for government today, its the money. And where the money goes, the politicians will follow. Think about it. How in the world did Mitt Romney get pushed so far in the Republican party? When it's obvious he cannot carry a conversation with a normal person? Its the money baby.
That's why the government is about as serious about updating the education system as they are about really stopping drugs in this country. There is a lot of money to be made by the few to exploit a lower working class. Pay them minimum minimum wage, make laws that target their socioeconomic group, let them fall into the idea that one day they can be rich too, and then buy a prison and fill it with those same people. It's just the game at the end of the day.
Berniewood Hogan
IT'S BERNIE SANDERS WITH A STEEL CHAIR!
I CHALLENGE YOU TO NAME AN EXTANT NON-DEMOCRATIC STATE THAT'S BEING RUN WITH GREATER "EXPERTISE" THAN THE DEMOCRATIZED STATES, BROTHER! EXAMINE NORTH KOREA, FOR EXAMPLE, DUDE! HOW'S THAT GOING, JACK?
thats about absolute power corrupting. if they had checks theyd think twice about being fakkits bro.
Berniewood Hogan
IT'S BERNIE SANDERS WITH A STEEL CHAIR!
OKAY, BROTHER! IGNORE THAT EXAMPLE AND CHOOSE YOUR OWN, DUDE! NAME AN EXTANT MONARCHY, OLIGARCHY, OR ARISTOCRATICALLY RUN GOVERNMENT THAT DEMONSTRATES MORE EXPERTISE THAN THE DEMOCRATIZED STATES, MEAN GENE!
chinas doing pretty good dont u think? :WHISTLE:
newworldafro
DeeperThanRapBiggerThanHH
The U.S. though is a Republic.......meaning we we elect people to represent our thoughts ....a Democracy is "two wolfs and a sheep asking whats for dinner".........but what Plato would insinuate today is a Technocracy which what has been building up the last few decades and years especially.....
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Berniewood Hogan
IT'S BERNIE SANDERS WITH A STEEL CHAIR!
THEY HAVE 250,000 SUICIDES A YEAR, BROTHER! CHINA'S WORKING CLASS LOOKS LIKE SLAVE LABOR COMPARED TO THE WEST'S, DUDE! YOU'VE PICKED A PERFECT EXAMPLE OF OLIGARCHY FAILING A POPULACE COMPLETELY, CHAMP!
YOU SAID SUCCESSFUL NOT BENEVOLENT.