Official FGC thread (Streams, Pop-offs, fukkery)

[IIVI]

Some old FGC heads/diehards been ambivalent and dismissive of it... but "Project L" finally releasing and enjoying at least a similar level of success as Valorant would do wonders for the scene as a whole. It's nothing compared to League (which is frankly an outlier monstrosity I still can't fully fathom ) but still having that boost from the Riot "pro" ecosystem getting integrated into and mingling with the FGC in terms of viewers, players, sponsors, leagues, etc. can only be a good thing I think if you want the scene to grow in a sustainable and meaningful way.

It'd be cool to see how many people would be interested in the game as it'll have characters they're familiar with as an IP. Maybe somewhere between the Arcsys DBZ games and SF6 would be a good turnout.

 

[Axum Ezana]

possibly. The game has passed Daigo by, I fear

but Since Sf5, Punk might be the GOAT SF player. He plays the same way he did on 5. His whiff punishes are immaculate. He's on that level Daigo and Infiltration were on during the SF4 era

Even last evo, @O.Red correct me if i'm wrong, but didn't punk make it all the way to top 8 without losing a single game? He was just 2-0'ing everyone, right?

as an elite player (top 8). but he still pretty good. better than the avg breh talkin smack.

 

[Black Magisterialness]

Yup. The crazy thing is these League of Legends players make more than that because of their contracts they get as salary.

Like I mentioned in the other post, Faker was offered $20 mil/year to sign with a team when he was a free agent but he turned it down. That was back in 2022, but dude stuck with his team and won a Championship and is still only 27 today

Right now that cat is basically a public enemy in China because of their rivalry with Korea and the fact he didn't sign with them. It's really on some sports shyt over there. Except imagine someone being greater than what Messi was to soccer. It's only more animosity as dude has had so many incredible plays dropping daggers on all these peoples' favorite teams who really want to see him lose.


That shyt is just so fukking different compared to the fgc, evo, etc.

It's cultural man. PC Bangs been a thing over there since the early 2000's. We simply don't have the culture of it over here. On top of that. We are constantly doing all the things to NOT get kids into competitive gaming from a structural point of view. But beyond that the biggest thing is Americans hate being bad at something.

Team esports allow you to hide behind 1 or two good players. In the case of Leauge, until you're in like Platinum, everyone sucks and one good game from one good player can carry the whole team. Same for games like Valorant and Overwatch, where you can specialize skill sets and don't even have to bother learning how to tank or AWP. Fighting games are the DIRECT opposite.

To be good at them you have to suck for a long time and lose A LOT. But more than that there's no one to carry you through wins so your serotonin high kicks in. Just look at the SF reddit. Every day there's a "when do I get good?" or "Why is this so hard" or "I guess I just suck" thread. Kids DO NOT want to spend the time on labbing, grinding, studying, going to locals and all that. So other games are more appealing because more than being social, the make people feel like they are better than what they are.

 

[IIVI]

It's cultural man. PC Bangs been a thing over there since the early 2000's. We simply don't have the culture of it over here. On top of that. We are constantly doing all the things to NOT get kids into competitive gaming from a structural point of view. But beyond that the biggest thing is Americans hate being bad at something.

Team esports allow you to hide behind 1 or two good players. In the case of Leauge, until you're in like Platinum, everyone sucks and one good game from one good player can carry the whole team. Same for games like Valorant and Overwatch, where you can specialize skill sets and don't even have to bother learning how to tank or AWP. Fighting games are the DIRECT opposite.

To be good at them you have to suck for a long time and lose A LOT. But more than that there's no one to carry you through wins so your serotonin high kicks in. Just look at the SF reddit. Every day there's a "when do I get good?" or "Why is this so hard" or "I guess I just suck" thread. Kids DO NOT want to spend the time on labbing, grinding, studying, going to locals and all that. So other games are more appealing because more than being social, the make people feel like they are better than what they are.

Yup. Actually interesting is I just read this (for some reason been thinking about getting into League again). The thing is League will not award instant gratification. Hundreds of 30 minute to 1 hour played games will let you know where you sit.

In Dota 2 there is a saying that 40% of games you automatically win regardless of how well you play, 40% you automatically lose, and it's the other 20% that your gameplay will influence the outcome of. The idea of ranking up is that you on average win more of those challenging games.

That's a great way of putting it and really team games overall.

Also it being such a young person's game too, reaction times for LoL and Dota 2 actually are basically as important as they are in FPS games but unlike FPS incredibly deft mechanical skills play an enormous role as well. You have 16 year old kids winning World Championships while the oldest player to have won a World Championship in League of Legends is 27, and that was Faker.

shyt, it's actually crazy how much these 16-17 year old kids have that much expertise through a game that has 150+ characters and all those items.

 

[Black Magisterialness]

Yup. Actually interesting is I just read this (for some reason been thinking about getting into League again). The thing is League will not award instant gratification. Hundreds of 30 minute to 1 hour played games will let you know where you sit.




That's a great way of putting it and really team games overall.

Also it being such a young person's game too, reaction times for LoL and Dota 2 actually are basically as important as they are in FPS games but unlike FPS incredibly deft mechanical skills play an enormous role as well. You have 16 year old kids winning World Championships while the oldest player to have won a World Championship in League of Legends is 27, and that was Faker.

shyt, it's actually crazy how much these 16-17 year old kids have that much expertise through a game that has 150+ characters and all those items.

Eh, that last point has been disproven constantly. Twitch muscle reaction is more about memory than physical ability.

League does award gratification in the sense of wins and losses. Using that Dota example, you still get 60% of wins. At the start of most people playing fighting games your win rate can be as low as 25% or 30%.

 

[IIVI]

Eh, that last point has been disproven constantly. Twitch muscle reaction is more about memory than physical ability.

League does award gratification in the sense of wins and losses. Using that Dota example, you still get 60% of wins. At the start of most people playing fighting games your win rate can be as low as 25% or 30%.

I don't really know if it's honestly reaction time or muscle memory, but it's most likely something to do with younger brains/instincts. Older crowds have never really done well in big competition vs younger competitors when it comes to MOBA's and FPS's unlike FG's. I definitely think you see people aging out of those games more while you always had vets like Alex Valle dominate. Maybe it's tougher for older people to click with a younger team, but that wouldn't describe why older teams don't work either. The game meta always changes as well so some of that experience doesn't quite map 1:1.

I think the last point balances out though for team-based games because while you do get wins gifted to you, you do get losses for games you should have won but your team dragged you down. Overall the average makes it balance out, just a symptom of team-based games. I think the same thing applies to both types of games though: it's best to concentrate of the lessons learned from the match regardless of what the outcome is. Landing some great combos and opening up a player even though I lost a match in fighting games has definitely helped me more than winning some easy match-ups. Much the same with League: may have got rolled but I definitely learned some things about playing Support that I can take into the next match.

Also the math is a little off because that 20% won't always be a win, in fact it may be more losses if you're not improving as a player which is how some people get stuck maybe at 44-47% win rates. Most people are likely stuck in that 48-52% win rate.

 

[Don Homer]

as an elite player (top 8). but he still pretty good. better than the avg breh talkin smack.

agreed

Daigo is still very good. He's just not that guy anymore.

Watching Daigo from 2009 - 2015 was a legit treat. Man was guaranteed a top 8 placing at every event. He owned the Topanga league as well. He didnt make top 8 at evo in 2015, but that year cemented him as the GOAT SF4 player.

 

[Axum Ezana]

agreed

Daigo is still very good. He's just not that guy anymore.

Watching Daigo from 2009 - 2015 was a legit treat. Man was guaranteed a top 8 placing at every event. He owned the Topanga league as well. He didnt make top 8 at evo in 2015, but that year cemented him as the GOAT SF4 player.

i think he still is the only one to win back to back at evo in sf right?

 

[Don Homer]

i think he still is the only one to win back to back at evo in sf right?

yeah, at least since 09. Idk if it happened before that. but he went b2b in 09 and 10. Was close to a threepeat in '11 as well when he switched to Yun

 

[Volt]

 

[O.Red]

Eh, that last point has been disproven constantly. Twitch muscle reaction is more about memory than physical ability.

League does award gratification in the sense of wins and losses. Using that Dota example, you still get 60% of wins. At the start of most people playing fighting games your win rate can be as low as 25% or 30%.

Glad more people are realizing this. The reactions/age talk in fgs has been overwhelmingly baseless assumptions

The truth is people have a gross misunderstanding of what constitutes "reactions". Nikkas think it's about raw 98ms reactions to random shyt when reactions are rooted in a series of heuristics.

Baseball hitters don't react to fastballs, they react to pitcher cues before the ball even leaves their hand. Fighting games are the same way. When you see someone that's good at teching throws, you're seeing someone that's good at recognizing when the opponent wants to throw. He's reacting to a situation, not an isolated stimulus

As it stands fighting games are not old enough to have an established idea of when physical breakdowns in skill begin to happen

 

[O.Red]

The DOTA2 purse was $30 million fukkin dollars FGC doesn't quite understand how niche it is

The FGC knows how niche it is. You think nikkas don't know about DOTA payouts?

Why do you think nikkas always talk about how much money they didn't make at these tournaments? Because they know what other games are making

 

[Black Magisterialness]

Glad more people are realizing this. The reactions/age talk in fgs has been overwhelmingly baseless assumptions

The truth is people have a gross misunderstanding of what constitutes "reactions". Nikkas think it's about raw 98ms reactions to random shyt when reactions are rooted in a series of heuristics.

Baseball hitters don't react to fastballs, they react to pitcher cues before the ball even leaves their hand. Fighting games are the same way. When you see someone that's good at teching throws, you're seeing someone that's good at recognizing when the opponent wants to throw. He's reacting to a situation, not an isolated stimulus

As it stands fighting games are not old enough to have an established idea of when physical breakdowns in skill begin to happen

Yup, to even hit a fast ball you have to basically start swinging before the ball even leaves their hand. Based on finger position and delivery you make the small adjustment you barely see a ball delivered over 60mph.

It's easy for me to see someone buffering or working a cross-up or a meaty. But that's because of years of conditioning not just reactions.

 

[Batsute]

 

[Blackfyre]

Album of Punk responses in Snake Eyes' twitch chat