Official FGC thread (Streams, Pop-offs, fukkery)

[O.Red]

COVITO, man. People simply ain't got the cash they had before the panini.

COVID had an effect, and the previous situation with Wizard affected it's reputation

But keep in mind that Mandalay Bay or Sony don't have a COVID sympathy package

 

[TripleAgent]

I addressed your points here in other posts so I won't be at the horse but again that "it's nothing for them to..." attitude don't happen anywhere in the world. Nikkas don't just give money away breh

To the point I quoted tho I've noticed American fgc tends to be dillusional or misinformed about shyt.

Daigo ain't that popular in Japan. He just another player. A great one, but just a player. AMERICA made Daigo what he is. Daigo said himself he didn't understand the Parry moment being so popular in America because in Japan that shyt is a regular day

American FGC been keeping shyt afloat for a while because honestly fgc is dying a slow death in Japan. The best Japanese players are 40+ and there are hardly any new players coming in because they float to other genres

It's not "giving money away". It's INVESTING IN YOUR BRAND AND PRODUCT. Marketing. Capcom Cup being the only event where you can make some real bread, especially after year 1 of the game, is part of the reason there's that huge casual drop, and people aren't motivated to stay in. I'm not saying fund locals, but if the big 3 or 4 have some bread sprinkled in, the player base doesn't dwindle as fast. Player retention. 60K for the big 3 events is one less company car. It's a pittance on the balance sheet of a company with as much revenue of Capcom. I don't know Japanese tax law, but Capcom USA could write that off like it's nothing.

Daigo is "just another player"? So they all have books published, documentaries? Where's the Mago one, I'd love to see that one.

If you told any of these companies I can get you at least 100k eyes for hours... Not just a few minutes they should be throwing money at that prospect.


However, players don't understand there value and they just love fighting games. Not only that what are they gonna do?

This is one of the cases were a publisher or a player has to transcend just the fgc but also be popular in other spaces for things besides fighting games.

Almost like Max but if he was also a top player. Imagine if Max was a top player but said yeah nah, I'm not competing in Evo because I'd make more money watching it at home and streaming with my fans.

Max had 25 to 50k viewers all Evo weekend. He made so much more than the players lol.

Right now there is no incentive for bigger pots and there isn't big enough nosie about it. And when there is what happens is they do there out tour. And Sony being involved now makes everything wayyyy more political on the back end.

You see it.

We ain't talking about the game being viable that ship has sailed. Esports, however is EXTRA, therefore everyone's effort should be EXTRA. You don't think twice about paying to go to an NBA game (for more than $60 btw for SIGNIFICANTLY less hours of enjoyment) AND also buying jerseys, posters, stickers etc.

How is this any different?

Maybe you do. I don't. My first SF was 1. I'm not diving head forst into microtransactions because I know how bullshyt they are. That's part of the reason I stopped playing 5. I wasn't playing weeks on end or paying extra for characters when the game wasn't all that to begin with. I'm not buying things that used to come in the game free as a "donation" or just because. fukk that. My "donation" was paying 60 dollars day 1 for a game I wasn't that concerned with in the first place. You sound wild caping for a multimillion dollar corporation, with two franchises that literally print money, crying broke.

 

[O.Red]

It's not "giving money away". It's INVESTING IN YOUR BRAND AND PRODUCT. Marketing. Capcom Cup being the only event where you can make some real bread, especially after year 1 of the game, is part of the reason there's that huge casual drop, and people aren't motivated to stay in. I'm not saying fund locals, but if the big 3 or 4 have some bread sprinkled in, the player base doesn't dwindle as fast. Player retention. 60K for the big 3 events is one less company car. It's a pittance on the balance sheet of a company with as much revenue of Capcom. I don't know Japanese tax law, but Capcom USA could write that off like it's nothing.

Daigo is "just another player"? So they all have books published, documentaries? Where's the Mago one, I'd love to see that one.

Investing implies an expected return on said investment. Fighting Games have had plenty of investors that left because they realize fgs have horrible ROI

The best investment Capcom can make is creating a good product. Casuals don't care about tournaments. The FGC don't hold up Mortal Kombat. Mortal Kombat wins because the game is a good product. Street Fighter 5 was a horrible product and the casual consumer made sure to let Capcom know it was by walking away. It's a hard pill for fg players to swallow but fgc is not the priority of a fighting game

And like I said earlier yes Daigo was another player until Americans built him into what he is. Daigo owes his celebrity to Evo moment 37

 

[Monsanto]

Investing implies an expected return on said investment. Fighting Games have had plenty of investors that left because they realize fgs have horrible ROI

The best investment Capcom can make is creating a good product. Casuals don't care about tournaments. The FGC don't hold up Mortal Kombat. Mortal Kombat wins because the game is a good product. Street Fighter 5 was a horrible product and the casual consumer made sure to let Capcom know it was by walking away. It's a hard pill for fg players to swallow but fgc is not the priority of a fighting game

And like I said earlier yes Daigo was another player until Americans built him into what he is. Daigo owes his celebrity to Evo moment 37

This is exactly counter to what they already do. When Evo comes around a new season of the game is announced for people to purchase at 25 - 50% of the base game price.

Mortal Kombat works because they go for presentation first. Everything else is butchered thus the longevity is like 2-3 years. And even then their DLC was like $40. Their characters have more eyes that extend outside of fighting games. They don't have niche DLC as opposed to SF and Tekken only limited to the FGC.

 

[O.Red]

This is exactly counter to what they already do. When Evo comes around a new season of the game is announced for people to purchase at 25 - 50% of the basee game price.

I've said before that a huge problem with fighting games is they cater too much to fighting game players

I keep stressing on Mortal Kombat because Ed Boon makes sure to make a good PRODUCT first. This is why Mortal Kombat transcends the fgc. If the product is good for the public then you can do the fgc shyt

Comparatively look at a game like DNF Duel. There is no reason that game should cost $40. Because outside of the shyt that only hardcore fighting game players care about what does that game have to offer?

Fighting Games have been bad products for too long and that ties into a lot of the complaints nikkas have about them not being where fgc nikkas think they should be

 

[TripleAgent]

Investing implies an expected return on said investment. Fighting Games have had plenty of investors that left because they realize fgs have horrible ROI

The best investment Capcom can make is creating a good product. Casuals don't care about tournaments. The FGC don't hold up Mortal Kombat. Mortal Kombat wins because the game is a good product. Street Fighter 5 was a horrible product and the casual consumer made sure to let Capcom know it was by walking away. It's a hard pill for fg players to swallow but fgc is not the priority of a fighting game

And like I said earlier yes Daigo was another player until Americans built him into what he is. Daigo owes his celebrity to Evo moment 37

Any investment can have negative ROI. If they're unwilling and would rather beg/con us, and we don't go for it, hang it up.

If they're so worried about casuals, they can do what everyone else is doing and make Capcom Smash Bros.

Evo Moment 37 may have added or put him over the top, but Daigo was popular before then. Do ya Googles. The point was, if he can be put up there, there's no reason a Justin, or even a SonicFox can't be made into a "star" for lack of a better term to inspire people to get in and stay in the FGC. Justing Wong not being more well known (and rich) is a failure on many people's parts.

EDIT: You keep brining up MK. Are you saying SF needs bloody finishers, movie and pop culture tie-ins? That's all MK has over SF. The games themselves are ass.

 

[Monsanto]

I've said before that a huge problem with fighting games is they cater too much to fighting game players

I keep stressing on Mortal Kombat because Ed Boon makes sure to make a good PRODUCT first. This is why Mortal Kombat transcends the fgc. If the product is good for the public then you can do the fgc shyt

Comparatively look at a game like DNF Duel. There is no reason that game should cost $40. Because outside of the shyt that only hardcore fighting game players care about what does that game have to offer?

Fighting Games have been bad products for too long and that ties into a lot of the complaints nikkas have about them not being where fgc nikkas think they should be

Promo is a huge problem. I hardly watch cable but there was a huge ad rollout for Strive, never saw that for SF5 or Tekken, KOF, etc. The 21 Savage song for the MK11 commercial tho, fire. It looked like it could be a movie, which speaks to another point.

MK has had multiple adaptations in the last decade to keep the word out that they're still here. Tekken is finally doing an anime and SF only has the game and comic as it's lifeline. That's no way to capture market share of games.


I keep seeing the f2p argument in here but they still have the barrier of being a fighting game. They're going to have a great first week or 2 but if they aren't a smash clone, welp.

 

[NZA]

they really should have a power stone 3 greenlit if they want that casual money

 

[Gizmo_Duck]

Promo is a huge problem. I hardly watch cable but there was a huge ad rollout for Strive, never saw that for SF5 or Tekken, KOF, etc. The 21 Savage song for the MK11 commercial tho, fire. It looked like it could be a movie, which speaks to another point.

MK has had multiple adaptations in the last decade to keep the word out that they're still here. Tekken is finally doing an anime and SF only has the game and comic as it's lifeline. That's no way to capture market share of games.


I keep seeing the f2p argument in here but they still have the barrier of being a fighting game. They're going to have a great first week or 2 but if they aren't a smash clone, welp.

I think the skill barrier is too high for most people these days. I think thats why SF6 is implementing the simple button input modes.

You charge 60-70 dollars for a fighting game, and most people can’t play them online because of the the amount of time (and muscle memory) it requires to play competitively. Arcades dying and local couch versus not being as popular with people today just make fighting games too hard to casually enjoy. Probably why F2P will take over for anything not street fighter, tekken, and MK

 

[Black Magisterialness]

Maybe you do. I don't. My first SF was 1. I'm not diving head forst into microtransactions because I know how bullshyt they are. That's part of the reason I stopped playing 5. I wasn't playing weeks on end or paying extra for characters when the game wasn't all that to begin with. I'm not buying things that used to come in the game free as a "donation" or just because. fukk that. My "donation" was paying 60 dollars day 1 for a game I wasn't that concerned with in the first place. You sound wild caping for a multimillion dollar corporation, with two franchises that literally print money, crying broke.

Your "donation" wasn't the $60 that was the price for access to the game, just like the price of your ticket to the Yankees.

I'm not caping, I'm telling you how the shyt works. It is your RIGHT as a consumer to not spend money on microtransactions. In the same breath, the company TOLD YOU that skins/stages would directly monetize its esports scene and you didn't fund it. Again, you didn't participate and there for shouldn't complain about the results of your own inaction.
New skins, stages and characters NEVER came free. The fukk are you on? In fact, Capcom used to be a meme for releasing FULL PRICE updates to play as new characters w/ balance updates. Super Turbo would have been DLC in 2022. So would Third Strike.
Street Fighter does not PRINT MONEY. Look at this sales chart and where Street Fighter is relative to Capcom's other games. There is NO WAY Capcom would allocate EVEN MORE MILLIONS to a game that already is not bringing in dollars at the same rate as their other titles.

This is not about what I want, or what I think is right, or my wishes for more investment. This is the REALITY and why what you're asking for will more than likely never happen.

 

[O.Red]

Any investment can have negative ROI. If they're unwilling and would rather beg/con us, and we don't go for it, hang it up.

If they're so worried about casuals, they can do what everyone else is doing and make Capcom Smash Bros.

Evo Moment 37 may have adeed or put him over the top, but Daigo was popular before then. Do ya Googles. The point was, if he can be put up there, there's no reason a Justin, or even a SonicFox can't be made into a "star" for lack of a better term to inspire people to get in and stay in the FGC. Justing Wong not being more well known (and rich) is a failure on many people's parts.

EDIT: You keep brining up MK. Are you saying SF needs bloody finishers, movie and pop culture tie-ins? That's all MK has over SF. The games themselves are ass.

You keep making it about your personal feelings and these companies will never care


You want these big pay outs but still wanna be like fukk casuals and it don't work like that You want to be fgc purist fine, but don't get mad when you get fgc purist payouts

Sonicfox is a star and brings a lot of casual eyes to the fgc. Sonic gets millions of views on YouTube. Again he's one of the few that understands branding and marketing. Making a star is a two way street. Them days of a company building a celebrity from scratch are over. The player and the company both gotta grind

I keep bringing up MK because they clearly know what they're doing. I don't even like MK playstyle but as a complete product no other fg comes close, and that's why they kill shyt every release

 

[O.Red]

Promo is a huge problem. I hardly watch cable but there was a huge ad rollout for Strive, never saw that for SF5 or Tekken, KOF, etc. The 21 Savage song for the MK11 commercial tho, fire. It looked like it could be a movie, which speaks to another point.

MK has had multiple adaptations in the last decade to keep the word out that they're still here. Tekken is finally doing an anime and SF only has the game and comic as it's lifeline. That's no way to capture market share of games.


I keep seeing the f2p argument in here but they still have the barrier of being a fighting game. They're going to have a great first week or 2 but if they aren't a smash clone, welp.

I agree that fgs/fgc promo has a lot of room for improvement

I'm completely on the f2p boat tho. Killer Instinct showed nikkas the way almost 10 years ago. That game had a great life that would've been even greater if it wasn't confined to just Xbox

I think the fg barrier will always be an issue. Fgs will always be harder than the average person wants to deal with

I don't see f2p as an option. I fully believe fgs won't survive much longer as is unless they upgrade(yes upgrade) to the f2p model. Too much of the fg market is outdated and unless your game truly justifies a $40-60 purchase, a lot of these games gonna die on the vine like DNF Duel is dying right now

 

[O.Red]

Your "donation" wasn't the $60 that was the price for access to the game, just like the price of your ticket to the Yankees.

I'm not caping, I'm telling you how the shyt works. It is your RIGHT as a consumer to not spend money on microtransactions. In the same breath, the company TOLD YOU that skins/stages would directly monetize its esports scene and you didn't fund it. Again, you didn't participate and there for shouldn't complain about the results of your own inaction.
New skins, stages and characters NEVER came free. The fukk are you on? In fact, Capcom used to be a meme for releasing FULL PRICE updates to play as new characters w/ balance updates. Super Turbo would have been DLC in 2022. So would Third Strike.
Street Fighter does not PRINT MONEY. Look at this sales chart and where Street Fighter is relative to Capcom's other games. There is NO WAY Capcom would allocate EVEN MORE MILLIONS to a game that already is not bringing in dollars at the same rate as their other titles.

This is not about what I want, or what I think is right, or my wishes for more investment. This is the REALITY and why what you're asking for will more than likely never happen.

Nikkas truly don't appreciate the fact that Capcom never has to make another Street Fighter with how good Monster Hunter and Resident Evil do

And we're in the get it yourself DIY age. This fgc shyt has been a relationship between the players and the devs. One won't survive without the other.

A good example of this relationship is Guilty Gear Strive. ArcSys went hard promoting that game but what kept it alive during development is the content creators making vids and discussing the game. Content creation is promo as well

That relationship led to Strive selling a million copies, some shyt no Guilty Gear has ever done

It's all relationships that require work on BOTH sides. But that "Give us money because we're good at your games. We know you got it" shyt ain't gonna fly

Nikkas buy a game and a stick(that's probably not even sold by the company) and want the world

 

[Duke Dixon]

F2P gets rid of the wonder if people want to play a game when it comes out. If they stay with it they might save money.

MK stays relevant because it's the second most recognizable fighting game franchise, maybe 1st in the US. MK also has a great story mode and unlockables to keep you playing. Capcom made a huge mistake by making SFV PS4/PC only.

Fighting games need some thing to make you want to keep playing besides ranking up. F2P with unlockables through a battle pass or a currency you can earn in game, even if it's slow, will keep people playing.

Fighting games are also at the bottom of the esports totem pole unfortunately. I don't know why that is. I think it's because Joe Blow from off the street can sign up and compete which isn't really the case for other esports. It is also a solo experience and the rest are team games. That's why I think Multiversus is pushing the 2v2 mode so much. I also think SF6 has a 2v2 tag mode as well. Capcom tried this before with Street Fighter X Tekken but that game didn't last for many reasons.

Edit: I think speedrunning is an esport and people can do that on their own.

 

[The_Sheff]

1st it was "companies cant afford to have a pot more than $5k", then it was "well they have their own tournament and the pot is larger there". So which is it?

As another poster stated, if you want to grow the audience you cant boil everything down to one event. You need to have anticipated events throughout the year. And no its not all about the money, its that the money will bring more people and eyes to the event.

I honestly believe MORE Evo type events is what the industry needs in general because while i tuned in for SF, once i saw KOF 15 and Strive, i spent more time watching those. I never would have booted up a KOF or Strive exclusive event. But now that i have seen those games and liked what i saw, i may.