Masculinity in the Golden Age of TV

[Food Mane]

Film room brehs,

Have any of you given any thought to gender in the current golden age of TV? I was strolling through a boardwalk empire thread and noticed someone saying that the show would have been much better without Margaret or Gillian. I've heard similar venom directed at Skylar White and Carmella Soprano. And truthfully, I agree with this to certain extent. Margeret and Skylar have both really irritated me at times.

Why have we seen so many troubled male antiheros lately? Are the women in their lives created to be unlikable or is it an unfair audience reaction?

Deadwood and the Wire didn't really suffer from this problem, because they chose to not really deal with women at all. The great shows that set up a strong female character (sopranos, breaking bad) both have alpha male protagonists that do horrible things based on greed and ego and wives that are hated much more just because they nag. Seems a little off, no?

I think part of it has to do with the power of the charismatic sociopath. I think Vince Gilligan and David Chase both got sort of frustrated towards the end of their series that people loved tony and walt so much. Chase literally spelled out Tony's sociopathic diagnosis; Gilligan had Walt almost kill a kid. I think both creators underestimated how much audiences would love the charismatic. Maybe if we hadn't have loved the sociopath so much, we would have had more sympathy for the woman?

My thoughts on this are only half formed. I'd appreciate any insight.

 

[The_King_of_Everything]

I thought this was about the bytchmade era of Hollywood and how we need more alpha male figures

 

[Jeffrey Lebowski]

Film room brehs,

Have any of you given any thought to gender in the current golden age of TV? I was strolling through a boardwalk empire thread and noticed someone saying that the show would have been much better without Margaret or Gillian. I've heard similar venom directed at Skylar White and Carmella Soprano. And truthfully, I agree with this to certain extent. Margeret and Skylar have both really irritated me at times.

Why have we seen so many troubled male antiheros lately? Are the women in their lives created to be unlikable or is it an unfair audience reaction?

Deadwood and the Wire didn't really suffer from this problem, because they chose to not really deal with women at all. The great shows that set up a strong female character (sopranos, breaking bad) both have alpha male protagonists that do horrible things based on greed and ego and wives that are hated much more just because they nag. Seems a little off, no?

I think part of it has to do with the power of the charismatic sociopath. I think Vince Gilligan and David Chase both got sort of frustrated towards the end of their series that people loved tony and walt so much. Chase literally spelled out Tony's sociopathic diagnosis; Gilligan had Walt almost kill a kid. I think both creators underestimated how much audiences would love the charismatic. Maybe if we hadn't have loved the sociopath so much, we would have had more sympathy for the woman?

My thoughts on this are only half formed. I'd appreciate any insight.

Based on this book, it seems like the male characters to a certain extent mirror the shows' creators

 

[Food Mane]

Based on this book, it seems like the male characters to a certain extent mirror the shows' creators

I've heard about this and been meaning to read it. Is it any good?

 

[Jeffrey Lebowski]

I've heard about this and been meaning to read it. Is it any good?

I enjoyed it. More a behind-the-scenes look than a critical analysis, but it's nice to take the peek behind the curtain that it offers.

 

[ChatGPT-5]

 

[Kill Dat Noize]

Look at some of the male leads this generation.

- Tony Soprano - Mob boss / gangster / killer
- Dexter Morgan - Serial killer
- Walter White - Meth cook / meth dealer / killer

Meanwhile look at the male leads from generations past.

- Ralph Kramden - Bus driver
- Ricky Ricardo - Band leader
- Andy Taylor - Sheriff

Our entertainment used to be a lot more wholesome. Our characters were upstanding individuals with regular jobs and regular lives.

Now we want to make heroes out of monsters.

Very interesting.

 

[Food Mane]

Look at some of the male leads this generation.

- Tony Soprano - Mob boss / gangster / killer
- Dexter Morgan - Serial killer
- Walter White - Meth cook / meth dealer / killer

Meanwhile look at the male leads from generations past.

- Ralph Kramden - Bus driver
- Ricky Ricardo - Band leader
- Andy Taylor - Sheriff

Our entertainment used to be a lot more wholesome. Our characters were upstanding individuals with regular jobs and regular lives.

Now we want to make heroes out of monsters.

Very interesting.

It's a rejection of society thing. All these guys essentially told the world to go fukk itself and created a new world with new rules where they could be king. Even Jack Bauer did this. It's a pretty juvenile fantasy to be honest.

 

[Ain't That Something]

I thought this was about the bytchmade era of Hollywood and how we need more alpha male figures

That shyt is especially true in sitcoms where every dad is a bytch made incompetent idiot and the wives are the smart strong witty ones

 

[Atsym Sknyfs]

That shyt is especially true in sitcoms where every dad is a bytch made incompetent idiot and the wives are the smart strong witty ones

When did this trend start..

I know Homer was a dope but he had a job and I dont think marge worked..
Plus Tim the toolman was a goof but he had wilson to depend on ..

Now .... it's either single mothers or a no job having dunb male role model..

 

[Rocket Scientist]

Look at Carl in Family Matters and how he had no backbone.

 

[Atsym Sknyfs]

Look at Carl in Family Matters and how he had no backbone.

Gotta cut Carl some slack .. he was a cop for Chicago's Finest .... he was probably stressed

 

[hex]

Look at some of the male leads this generation.

- Tony Soprano - Mob boss / gangster / killer
- Dexter Morgan - Serial killer
- Walter White - Meth cook / meth dealer / killer

Meanwhile look at the male leads from generations past.

- Ralph Kramden - Bus driver
- Ricky Ricardo - Band leader
- Andy Taylor - Sheriff

Our entertainment used to be a lot more wholesome. Our characters were upstanding individuals with regular jobs and regular lives.

Now we want to make heroes out of monsters.

Very interesting.

Eh....you also gotta take into consideration it was virtually impossible to have a fully fleshed out character, or a heavily serialized story back then. So the jobs had to be some run-of-the-mill shyt, and the characters were one dimensional.

I'm not saying Ricky Ricardo would've been a drug dealer or murderer or anything like that, I'm saying the option of making an antihero/compelling villain wasn't there, at all. So both the heroes and villains were painted in broad strokes of "this guy is good, this guy is bad".

Fred.

 

[DaylitoJames]

Breh

That shyt is especially true in sitcoms where every dad is a bytch made incompetent idiot and the wives are the smart strong witty ones

I loved Everybody Hates Chris but I have a hard time watching the reruns cause that harpie bytch of a wife always talked down on Julius like he was a little kid all the time. Dude had like 3 jobs to keep that family happy but she always found something to yell at him bout

 

[TKOK]

That shyt is especially true in sitcoms where every dad is a bytch made incompetent idiot and the wives are the smart strong witty ones

first thing that popped into my head was Everybody loves Raymond, they made Raymond look like a no brain idiot, while his wife seemed much more intelligent.