Kenny Smith | "LeBron is in my top 10 BUT he’s 10th...Kobe is not top 10" :scust:

[Sccit]

•higher postseason peaks than anybody in history, and roughly equivalent---not behind---with Jordan's postseason peaks (as measured series' by series', by WS48, WS, PER, GmSc, any statistical evaluation or the actual eye test---->there certainly hasn't been a more consistently higher playoff performer since Jordan's '98 retirement, and when you're lining up LeBron's peak performances with anybody in history from '98 on backwards, he and Mike stand out way ahead of the field consistently)....he's right there with Mike as far as peak is measured and you can argue his very best is higher, key word it can be *argued*...

•one of the most dominant regular season players in history, again objectively measured by statistical evaluation or the eye test compared to people we've seen. Amongst GOAT candidates the only players in this sector of conversation with LeBron would be Mike, Kareem, and Wilt. You could stretch and add Larry and Shaq but they didn't hold that longevity of otherworld dominance as long as the other guys...

•greatest floor raiser in NBA history, not a single player in NBA history has done more with less so consistently...

•arguably the greatest all around player ever, I mean how many guys are truly deserving to be mentioned in the convo with him? There have been plenty of good-to-great all around players, very, very few did these things as well as LeBron. Scoring might at best be his third greatest skill and he somehow made himself one of the greatest scorers ever...

•not a single superstar player I've ever seen with comparable offensive responsibilities and/or talent, was as destructive defensively at their peak. His ability at peak to man anybody on the floor, particularly in crunch time, is rare shyt; even rarer is his ability to completely dominate a game and alter the opponent's offensive gameplan----->how many SUPERSTAR, GOAT-level guys have had that ability? Its unique as hell...

•greatest prep-to-pro player in NBA history; longevity as an elite player at this point is only rivaled by Kareem and Kobe; had roughly a decade-long run as the best player in The League, rivaled by only Kareem and Mike; 4th-most decorated (awards/accolades) player in league history, after Mike, Bill, Kareem, and all of these guys were of different eras besides the 5-year overlap late in Cap's/early in Mike's career, so it can be said in context that 60 years of NBA history was dominated by four guys way above anyone else, as Kareem was drafted right after Bill's retirement; Mike only overlapped 5 of Kareem's 20 seasons, and LeBron was drafted right after Mike's last retirement...

I can keep going but I'll stop there. I've said this many times and I'll reiterate here: while LeBron is the greatest basketball player I've ever seen, I'm not positive he's the greatest ever---->but all these baseless claims that he doesn't have an argument for it are ridiculous. Any objective evaluation of him makes it clear he doesn't just have an argument, he has one of the strongest any player has...

 

[Sccit]

Too many guys had higher peaks?

HELL NAH

Kobe at his absolutely best can be mentioned with anyone other than mike

KOBE HAD GREATER PEAKS THAN MIKE IF WE KEEPIN IT A BUCK

 

[Sccit]

@ISO covered my response to this...



Its not even a debate that both Kareem and LeBron have higher peaks than Kobe. So that's three guys off the rip that it doesn't take alot of thinking or research to get behind...

An argument can be made for Wilt, and I think most people would favor Wilt over Bean as far as peak dominance goes...an argument can be made for Bird, where the vote would probably be 50/50 but Bird's peak is absolutely debatably Top 5...An argument can be made for Shaq having a higher peak that I think most agree with, so that's 6 guys...

And while I see all of these guys along the same line, you can argue any one of Russell, O, Dream, Duncan, and Magic, as having at least comparable peaks to Kobe, and make the argument for any one of them over the other...

Amongst all the GOAT candidates Kobe's peak wasn't amongst the most dominant, so I don't understand the idea that "only Mike" was more dominant. I think it comes from the idea that because Kobe is "the closest thing we've seen to Mike", collectively as a culture we've talked ourselves into believing that means Kobe was better than anyone else, but they aren't synonymous and ice said this before---->people with this idea that Kobe is right next to Mike and/or only Mike is above him, aren't helping his case as much as they think they are...

TERRIBLE POSTING

 

[Sccit]

That same season LeBron averaged 31/7/7 to Kobe’s 35/5/5 and took a 64 win Pistons team to 7 games in the ECSF

Cavs won 50 games too split the season series against Kobe 1-1

Had better ‘lytics and finished higher in the MVP voting

ALL THAT TYPING N KOBE WAS STILL 10X BETTER

 

[Sccit]

I think most people feel Bron's '13 was greater, and you can argue '06 LeBron, which is maybe like the 8th-greatest version of LeBron at best, is greater than '06 Kobe...roughly the 8th-greatest LeBron year is arguably greater than what people widely consider Kobe's GOAT year...

LeBron has multiple years the best versions of Kobe dont approach, I'm not sure where people have this idea the reverse is true, particularly when you start including playoff performances...

That said, cats here shyt on stats when they don't favor their argument, but they're kept for a reason. If '06 was peak Kobe the way most of us feel it is, the only traditional numbers he has that aren't dwarfed by multiple LeBron years are PPG, FT%, and FGA. All of those would be career-high for LeBron, every other category LeBron has multiple years ahead of this version of Kobe...

Not a single analytic favors this version of Kobe over LeBron besides usage rate. Multiple LeBron years in every other category dwarf Kobe's peak productivity...

We can talk about "eye test" but we know people's eyes tend to tell them what they want to see more than what actually is. Objectively though, people, including Kobe's biggest fans, argue that '06 (or '03) was him at his absolute best. The best version of Kobe won 45 games and lost a 3-1 series lead with a comparable roster LeBron has taken to ECF and Finals multiple times (and never lost a 3-1 lead with a roster comparable to the '06 Lakers)...

It takes some serious confirmation bias to say LeBron never had a year like '06 Kobe...

YOU DONT UNDERSTAND BASKETBALL BEYOND NUMBERS

 

[Sccit]

The idea of Lebron in the minds of his stans doesn’t match the reality of his dominance. Lebron has great all time stats but he also monopolize the basketball. Harden and Russ are basically stats monsters the same way. We can’t say Bron is this dominant playoff performer and he only 3-6 in the finals. 1-3 against his GS rivals, 1-2 against SA rivals and 1-1 against KD in finals. Show me something about his goat case cause I just don’t see it.

MONEY

 

[Sccit]

he was obsessed with fetting his own to the extent he hurt his team. He was also a team cancer who never elevated the play of his teammates and more often than not made the temas he was on toxic environments that led to team disunity.

U LITERALLY DESCRIBED LEBRON

 

[Sccit]

stars on that Odom, Bynum, Pau, qnd artest.

U EVER CONSIDER DRINKING BLEACH? SHIITS BOMB...I HEAR LEBRON DOES IT ALL THE TIME.

 

[madness]

Kenny the Jet got these Kobe stans furious

 

[Sccit]

Kenny the Jet got these Kobe stans furious

WE DONT EVEN CARE, HE ESSENTIALLY PUT LEBRON 10 AND KOBE 11, WHICH MEANS HE’S UNDERSELLING KOBE AND OVERRATING BRON.....

BUT WHAT THE HEADS IN THIS THREAD ARE LAUGHIN AT IS THE RETARDS WHO REPLIED IN HERE. COMEDY GOLD.

 

[madness]

WE DONT EVEN CARE, HE ESSENTIALLY PUT LEBRON 10 AND KOBE 11, WHICH MEANS HE’S UNDERSELLING KOBE AND OVERRATING BRON.....

BUT WHAT THE HEADS IN THIS THREAD ARE LAUGHIN AT IS THE RETARDS WHO REPLIED IN HERE. COMEDY GOLD.

the only retard I see in here is the one with 20 consecutive posts full of anger

 

[Houston911]

KOBE HAD GREATER PEAKS THAN MIKE IF WE KEEPIN IT A BUCK

mike is the goat

 

[Sccit]

mike is the goat

 

[Sccit]

the only retard I see in here is the one with 20 consecutive posts full of anger

WHY WOULD I BE ANGRY?

IM SIMPLY DISAPPOINTED IN HOW PATHETIC SOME FOLKS CAN BE

 

[ISO]

ALL THAT TYPING N KOBE WAS STILL 10X BETTER

Not what the ‘lytics or MVP ladder say