I was doing some self-reflecting lately: I was wrong.

[Type Username Here]

In the Obama Admin/NDAA thread, I chastised others for putting emotion/political affiliations/admiration over what I perceived to be violations of civil rights and the Constitution. All this, while actively saying multiple times that FDR/Jefferson were my favorite Presidents.

After forcing myself to put aside my natural intuition to defend my position, I forced to ask myself some basic philosophical questions, mainly this:

What is most important in a free society and government officials?

After thinking about it for an hour or two, I came to the conclusion that FDR/Jefferson were not good leaders. While I may value some of their contributions, it does not excuse them from committing egregious violations of basic human rights and freedoms. To excuse them for those things because I valued FDR's socialist policies, or Jefferson's philosophy and intelligence, amounts to a mistake on my part.

Instead of condemning others, I will now state why I feel it is important to uphold one of the basic tenets of human co-existence: freedom and the limitation thereof. A human being should be free, and when we limit that freedom using laws and judicial system, there must be a fair, reasonable and rational system to do so. Giving human beings the power to do those things without a fair system to provide checks and balances is quite dangerous, even if we perceive that the ones who will be affected by these policies are not desirable individuals.

If you choose to not to prioritize this it is not my place to shun or condemn your decision, only to shine light respectfully on why I prioritize it.

Thank you.

 

[Broke Wave]

In the Obama Admin/NDAA thread, I chastised others for putting emotion/political affiliations/admiration over what I perceived to be violations of civil rights and the Constitution. All this, while actively saying multiple times that FDR/Jefferson were my favorite Presidents.

After forcing myself to put aside my natural intuition to defend my position, I forced to ask myself some basic philosophical questions, mainly this:

What is most important in a free society and government officials?

After thinking about it for an hour or two, I came to the conclusion that FDR/Jefferson were not good leaders. While I may value some of their contributions, it does not excuse them from committing egregious violations of basic human rights and freedoms. To excuse them for those things because I valued FDR's socialist policies, or Jefferson's philosophy and intelligence, amounts to a mistake on my part.

Instead of condemning others, I will now state why I feel it is important to uphold one of the basic tenets of human co-existence: freedom and the limitation thereof. A human being should be free, and when we limit that freedom using laws and judicial system, there must be a fair, reasonable and rational system to do so. Giving human beings the power to do those things without a fair system to provide checks and balances is quite dangerous, even if we perceive that the ones who will be affected by these policies are not desirable individuals.

If you choose to not to prioritize this it is not my place to shun or condemn your decision, only to shine light respectfully on why I prioritize it.

Thank you.

The New Deal was a violation of civil rights?


Almost got me there.

 

[Good Guy Guevara]

The New Deal was a violation of civil rights?


Almost got me there.

During WWII FDR put Japanese Americans living on the West Coast in internment camps.

 

[Orbital-Fetus]

During WWII FDR put Japanese Americans living on the West Coast in internment camps.

yup...overall i am an FDR stan, but i can't give him a pass on this.

 

[Orbital-Fetus]

In the Obama Admin/NDAA thread, I chastised others for putting emotion/political affiliations/admiration over what I perceived to be violations of civil rights and the Constitution. All this, while actively saying multiple times that FDR/Jefferson were my favorite Presidents.

After forcing myself to put aside my natural intuition to defend my position, I forced to ask myself some basic philosophical questions, mainly this:

What is most important in a free society and government officials?

After thinking about it for an hour or two, I came to the conclusion that FDR/Jefferson were not good leaders. While I may value some of their contributions, it does not excuse them from committing egregious violations of basic human rights and freedoms. To excuse them for those things because I valued FDR's socialist policies, or Jefferson's philosophy and intelligence, amounts to a mistake on my part.

Instead of condemning others, I will now state why I feel it is important to uphold one of the basic tenets of human co-existence: freedom and the limitation thereof. A human being should be free, and when we limit that freedom using laws and judicial system, there must be a fair, reasonable and rational system to do so. Giving human beings the power to do those things without a fair system to provide checks and balances is quite dangerous, even if we perceive that the ones who will be affected by these policies are not desirable individuals.

If you choose to not to prioritize this it is not my place to shun or condemn your decision, only to shine light respectfully on why I prioritize it.

Thank you.

those are some very high ideals you strive towards...i applaud your efforts.

 

[Broke Wave]

Oh if your talking about that shyt then yeah OP is right.

Sorry

 

[Type Username Here]

those are some very high ideals you strive towards...i applaud your efforts.

Thank you friend, but I think it's a high ideal that most cultures and people have strived for.

Since we are social creatures, and numbers give us a better chance for survival, it's safe to say that the rules and philosophical schools of thoughts that govern our interactions are the key component of human life.

The Golden Rule might be our earliest philosophical ideal that has permeated throughout various cultures, religions, and societies. Golden Rule - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I think the Golden Rule applies here. Would we want to be locked up indefinitely without a chance to fairly prove our innocence? The reason the political philosophers of time placed value in these ideals is because the King, even with the limitations of the Magna Carta and English Bill of Rights, could imprison anyone at a whim. Torture anyone they saw fit. Lock up and throw away the key when they felt like. During the time of some of these philosophers, the "Divine Right of Kings" mentality was still going strong (weaker, but strong).

If we all agree that human freedom is essential, then we must recognize that anything that limits that freedom should be rooted in logic and must take place in a system of checks and balances to curb localized corruption and abuse of power.