Harvard Reinstates Standardized Testing Requirement

[DEAD7]

Harvard Reinstates Standardized Testing Requirement​

At Harvard, the mandate will be in place for students applying to begin school in fall 2025. Harvard had previously committed to a test-optional policy for applicants through the class of 2030, which would have started in fall 2026. Most students who applied since the pandemic began have submitted test scores despite the test-optional policy, the university said.

Reviewing SAT/ACT scores as part of a student's application packet helps an admissions decision be holistic, the university said in a statement. "Standardized tests are a means for all students, regardless of their background and life experience, to provide information that is predictive of success in college and beyond," Hopi Hoekstra, a Harvard dean, said in the statement. "Indeed, when students have the option of not submitting their test scores, they may choose to withhold information that, when interpreted by the admissions committee in the context of the local norms of their school, could have potentially helped their application."

 

[the cac mamba]

i can appreciate that there's some bias in the test, or whatever the complaint is, but what the fukk else are they gonna do? how else do you reasonably assess every high school student in the country?

 

[DEAD7]

i can appreciate that there's some bias in the test, or whatever the complaint is, but what the fukk else are they gonna do? how else do you reasonably assess every high school student in the country?

It really does seem like there are no good alternatives...

 

[Pressure]

It really does seem like there are no good alternatives...

How do we know. The policy never changed.

 

[Voice of Reason]

i can appreciate that there's some bias in the test, or whatever the complaint is, but what the fukk else are they gonna do? how else do you reasonably assess every high school student in the country?

This cracka is always splainin some shyt away.

 

[ADevilYouKhow]

Does that mean you’re ready to apply again, OP?

 

[Pull Up the Roots]

It really does seem like there are no good alternatives...

Future of Testing in Education: The Way Forward for State Standardized Tests

There are valid criticisms about the current structure of state standardized testing in schools; the solution is not to get rid of these assessments but rather to design them differently.

www.americanprogress.org

 

[Professor Emeritus]

The dirty secret about Harvard (and many other elite schools) is that far more students could succeed at those schools than are actually let in. The admissions process isn't about figuring out who belongs and who doesn't do much as it is about creating arbitrary dividing lines to decide who will get the prestige of a degree and who will not.

Notice that when legacies, celebrities, politicians' children, athletes, etc. go to such schools with inferior academic stats, they usually graduate anyway? Even when there was that huge scam years back where the Louisiana charter school was faking student grades and test scores to get their students into elite colleges, most of the kids who had had an actual high school education still graduated from those schools, even though, according to the test scores, they didn't belong at all.

i can appreciate that there's some bias in the test, or whatever the complaint is, but what the fukk else are they gonna do? how else do you reasonably assess every high school student in the country?

You look at their grades, their course load, and teacher recommendations.

I do think there should be two major changes, though.

#1: Student grades need to be more clearly aligned with skill acquisition. A report card would be 10x more useful if it said, "By the end of the year, the student demonstrated excellence in factoring, excellence in story problems, and competence in graphing", especially if those marks had some comparison to where they started the year.

#2: In lieu of (or in addition to) more useful report cards, they should increase the teacher recommendations to at least 4, and include more specific questions about student competency in important areas.

 

[theworldismine13]

That's good, I never understood what the point of getting rid of it was, it just creates a process that's even more subjective than it already is

I think the only real solution is for black families and/or local governments to start paying for SAT tutors

 

[the cac mamba]

You look at their grades, their course load, and teacher recommendations.

no, this is obviously not remotely the same as considering how they all did when they took the exact same test. and you're well aware of that

 

[Black Hans]

What is Harvard implying?

 

[Professor Emeritus]

no, this is obviously not remotely the same as considering how they all did when they took the exact same test. and you're well aware of that

If course it's not "the same", why should it be? Those who think that the SAT is a great option don't need to find an alternative to the SAT. Those who think the SAT is a crap option aren't looking to replace the SAT with something else just the same.

In a country where any particular child's family background, schooling experience, and test prep are vastly different, what do you gain from giving two kids with completely different experiences the same test and holding them to the same standards? Especially when the shyt measured on the SAT has little relevance to real life OR most college experiences?

 

[the cac mamba]

If course it's not "the same", why should it be? Those who think that the SAT is a great option don't need to find an alternative to the SAT. Those who think the SAT is a crap option aren't looking to replace the SAT with something else just the same.

In a country where any particular child's family background, schooling experience, and test prep are vastly different, what do you gain from giving two kids with completely differetlnt experiences the same test and holding them to the same standards? Especially when the shyt measured on the SAT has little relevance to real life OR most college experiences?

you know that reviewing thousands of fukkin college applications is a process that takes a huge amount of time, right? and that maybe being able to glance at one universal test score is a little more realistic than whatever it is you're proposing?

we're literally talking about this in a thread that says Harvard tried and failed to do what you want to do do you not trust Harvard?

 

[Professor Emeritus]

That's good, I never understood what the point of getting rid of it was, it just creates a process that's even more subjective than it already is

What is the goal of college admissions that can be solved by any "objective" criteria? The process is subjective from the start, any claims to objectivity are only introduced in order to falsely claim distance from the decisions that are made.

I think the only real solution is for black families and/or local governments to start paying for SAT tutors

How is that a "solution" when wealthy families are paying more for college prep assistance than an entire Black community could pay combined?

Any version of "just pay for it" will put the Black community at a permanent disadvantage. And that's before you even get to the other non-financial factors (lower parental education, fewer educated social connections, worse neighborhood schools, higher stress childhood experiences) that would put Black kids at a disadvantage even IF the preo money and tutoring opportunities were equal. Which they're not.

There is no version of "just rely on test scores" that didn't fail to fukk over the community who is at a massive disadvantage when it comes to every factor correlated with good test scores.



[p.s. - I should add that it isn't the Black community alone, the Native community is just as fukked on that criteria.]

 

[Professor Emeritus]

you know that reviewing thousands of fukkin college applications is a process that takes a huge amount of time, right? and that maybe being able to glance at one universal test score is a little more realistic than whatever it is you're proposing?

They already look at numerous criteria, not just "one universal test score."

we're literally talking about this in a thread that says Harvard tried and failed to do what you want to do do you not trust Harvard?

No I don't trust Harvard, why would you?


And if you think Harvard already tried to do what I suggested, then you didn't read my suggestion at all.