threattonature
Veteran
The same Royce that tried to go head up against Lupe and got so embarrassed and he ain't dropped new music in the two years since?
GZA or Lupe...who's the better lyricist?
- Thread starter Billy Ocean
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- gzs genius lupe basura
he's not very good at actually making music.
The Truest
A nikka talkin sh*t
Wasalu the better lyricist and music maker by a wide margin.
No one has taken that position in this thread lmao.The reason we can't have these discussions is because anything contrary to Lupe
being the absolute best rapper in existence is called HATE.
Like does no one realize how insane this sounds ?
I'm not going to discuss it any further tho.
Go listen to MIKE, he's fukking dope, his pen is nice and he's still
good even though you didn't hear him in middle school or whatever.
It’s all subjective but to say “wide margin” is very disingenuous. Lupe has sold more records than GZA and has higher charted songs. That means more people liked his music. Again, that’s subjective too because it different eras. But, to say “wide margin” just proves you’re not a fan of rap but of rap personalities. 2 talented rapper, like them, are not “wide margins” apart. I never vibe that much with GZA music but no way would I say he wasn’t great lyricist because I appreciate the art over anything.
I weighed that in my response.
Ultimately if the music isn't good then how lyrical you are doesn't matter. They're making music, not writing a novel.
Fred.
Ya Sinning Mane
Superstar
lupe cuz his first 2 albums was cold as fukk
I hear ya.
That argument exist with novels too. Literary fiction vs storyteller., etc Jasmine Ward is an amazing writer, but she cant tell a story like SA Cosby; likewise Cosby cant write from a prose perspective like her. They have two different aims...so the reader goes to the the writer who gives them what they like.
To me lyrical ability is a separate skill from song making.
Insensitive
Superstar
Not even worth the argument.
They are pretty hard to compare, imo. Both highly skilled but in opposite ways--and which one you think is better is often going to come down to taste. Lupe is very dense, very versatile, he has all the tricks, bells and whistles and he uses them really well. On the other hand GZA's lyricism is boiled down to the core, just the essentials executed at a very high level. Personally I'm more of a minimalist and I like a writer who can do a lot with a little, so I think GZA is better. But I understand why someone might say Lupe.
you know the argument is getting thin when the only thing nikkas got to lean on is “b-bu-but Liquid Swords” 
Now I got super respect for GZA and his lyrical brilliance… but my nikka got a whole ass album before Liquid Swords, like 3 or 4 after Liquid Swords, and ain’t made an album in 15 years… you don’t hear nobody mentioning them shyts in this thread AT ALL
Now I got super respect for GZA and his lyrical brilliance… but my nikka got a whole ass album before Liquid Swords, like 3 or 4 after Liquid Swords, and ain’t made an album in 15 years… you don’t hear nobody mentioning them shyts in this thread AT ALL
FruitOfTheVale
Superstar
The bolded is actually a very astute point when it comes to lyricism in Hip Hop. Personally, the way I "judge" lyricism at this point is whether the artist's specific voice and POV manages to bleed through highly executed technique. A lot of rappers can learn how to pull off punchlines, multis, etc. fairly quickly, but where the vast majority of them fail is that their words aren't directed towards a real somebody or something. If you don't have an axe to grind or if you don't feel strongly enough about who you're talking to/what you're talking about, trying to dress it up with technique is going to come off flowery 90% of the time. Putting it another way, if you can say something a lot simpler and the meaning is 100% the same as the complex version, then the "complex" version is not actually complex. Most rappers period lack nuance in what they rap, but if you're being carried by your performance ability (i.e. your delivery, your voice, your flow, etc) and your songwriting ability then 10/10 listeners don't care.
GZA's the rare kind of rapper who has a shyt ton of nuance in what he raps and, on his best work, it's always directed at someone/something he feels very strongly about. His rhyme technique builds on top of a base that is already interesting due to the perspective. A song like "Labels" could've easily fallen flat if if it was just a lot of name flips and wordplay but due to the industry bullshyt he had to deal with throughout his career, it's scathing in a way it would only be if you've been wronged and had strong words you'd even say in real life.
A song like "Cold World" could've been written from a much less distant, "cold" POV if he wanted it to feel like he was at the center of the murder and mayhem ala KGR, Scarface, etc. However, that would've required a very different type of performance that wouldn't have worked very well with his default delivery & voice, and it's GZA's ability to write in a way that suits his voice that underlines a lot of the power of his material imo. KA's another example of a rapper like that imo, he writes the type of content that suits his more subdued delivery, and it works.
Lupe is more willing to experiment lyrically and performance-wise than GZA, but imo that same willingness leads to more moments where he writes himself into an extreme "pushing the boundaries for the sake of pushing the boundaries" at the expense of having a more definable voice. Lyricism in Hip Hop imo is at its best when there's a very clear "why" to the lyrics. Sometimes, Lupe's "why" for some of his records can be a little murkier than someone like GZA would be, which is where a lot of the Lupe criticism originates from IMO. On the same token, Lupe's made some very creative records that have a clear "why" that literally no one else would even think to make, so it works both ways.
At the end of the day I believe Lupe can make a liquid swords but I don’t think GZA can make a song like Failure, Switch, He Say She Say, Hurt Me Soul, or an album like Tetsuo.
We talk about Liquid swords (classic) I also love legend of the liquid sword (underrated) but protools and beneath the surface aren’t really that good.Lupe dropped lasers and drogas light but he also bounced back and with Tetsuo, DMIZ, and drogas wave. That’s not including loosies and pharoah height mixtape which all contains a high level of lyricism, storytelling, and imagination.
But I’m also a person who actually thinks Deck is the best lyricist in the Wu he just hasn’t made a classic album
@NoHalfWay they skipped over this.lol But I’m about to start this Jayz vs GZA thread maybe a lil Wayne vs GZA and see how it goes