GSP and Khabib are both the GOATS of the UFC
- Thread starter Blaze500
- Start date
xXMASHERXx
Superstar
Ok so then how does GSP get into the convo with two losses?
TheDarceKnight
Veteran
GSP avenged each loss (one of them twice) by stoppage, and the big thing with GSP is that he fought multiple generations of fighters. He also took multiple years off the sport and returned to win the belt in a weight class that he never fought in, and in the process purposely fought an exciting style and looked for the finish (which he got) in order to try and combat 2 of the biggest criticisms against him: that he played it safe and that he didn't finish many fights once he held the belt.
He never popped for PEDs either, and he contributed a lot of techniques and learning styles to the game.
xXMASHERXx
Superstar
My point was that he mentioned GSP because he's likeable. Why didn't he mention Mighty Mouse? Yeah he avenged the losses but one of those losses was to Matt Serra which automatically drop him out of the number 1 spot.
GSP fought in probably the most stacked division in the UFC....... despite his loss to Serra, (which he avenged) he has beaten many great fighters
MM is good, but the lower weights arn't often viewed in these types of discussions and his resume isn't nearly as strong as GSP's
TheDarceKnight
Veteran
I have to agree with @Blaze500 that in GSP’s era the 170 division was probably the most stacked in MMA. It was definitely top 2. He lost to Serra by getting caught lazy, but he damn near murdered Serra in the rematch. The fight got stopped with GSP standing and slamming knees into a grounded Serra’s ribs like they were missiles. There’s something to be said for having to fight someone that finished you already and overcoming that.
For better or worse, 125 and 135 are never shown as much love as 145 and up. They’re getting more love now, but it’s taken time. Even 145 took a long time to for Aldo to get the love he deserved.
I’m glad Mighty Mouse gets props now because for a long time he didn’t. I’ve been training since 2005 and watching MMA since 1998, and I truly don’t think GSP was only mentioned because he’s a nice guy.
Another crazy thing with a GSP is that he hates fighting. He loves training and skill-development, but gets crazy nervous to fight and has to work really hard to get his mind right. I’m surprised he held it together as long as he did.
xXMASHERXx
Superstar
I'm not even saying GSP isn't top 5 all time (I jave him in mine) I'm just saying losing twice and one of those being to Matt Serra has him out of the discussion for GOAT for me
. Just like yall will hold Jones testing positive against him.
. Just like yall will hold Jones testing positive against him.
TheDarceKnight
Veteran
You definitely have every right to do that. But I think it’s weird that post USADA in his fights where he tests clean, Jones struggles a lot. Now I’m the first to admit GSP probably lost that fight to Hendricks, but Jones also probably lost that 1st fight with Gus and he definitely lost that fight with Reyes.I'm not even saying GSP isn't top 5 all time (I jave him in mine) I'm just saying losing twice and one of those being to Matt Serra has him out of the discussion for GOAT for me
Jones didn’t just pop once for steroids either. He’s a multiple time offender.
I trained with Derek Brunson a long time and he’s told some wild Jon stories. My ultimate take on Jon is that he’s the most brilliant and most talented fighter to ever step on the octagon. I think it’s a shame that he hadn’t taken his career more seriously. If he’s trained even half as hard as most of the other people in the GOAT conversations, he’d be better than all of them by a mile. As great as he is he always could’ve been much better and it’s hard for me not to be bummed about that.
Knockout_LR_Freshmart
All Star
Stating the obvious, but the GOAT convo is so subjective that even the "experts" have made claims I consider really absurd that others have really clung on to in the argument.
I saw Okamoto & Raimondi using the fact that some of JBJ's wins were against fighters "out of their prime" as knocks against him and going on to praise Khabib.
Thing is, Khabib has so few marquee names on his resume (Gaethje, Poirier, Conor, RDA) that how they perform down the line is going to determine whether or not he's the GOAT by this standard. Besides RDA, none of them have even fleshed out much of a post-Khabib career yet. So how is it fair to judge JBJ by saying his wins against Machida, Rashad, Shogun, Vitor, etc. are less impressive in retrospect because they didn't have a ton of success afterwards, even though Khabib's opponent's haven't been given the same opportunity to succeed or fail?
USADA can be mentioned all day when discrediting Jones & Silva, but this?
I'm not arguing Khabib is/isn't the GOAT, but wait 3 years and then I might allow this into the conversation.
I saw Okamoto & Raimondi using the fact that some of JBJ's wins were against fighters "out of their prime" as knocks against him and going on to praise Khabib.
Thing is, Khabib has so few marquee names on his resume (Gaethje, Poirier, Conor, RDA) that how they perform down the line is going to determine whether or not he's the GOAT by this standard. Besides RDA, none of them have even fleshed out much of a post-Khabib career yet. So how is it fair to judge JBJ by saying his wins against Machida, Rashad, Shogun, Vitor, etc. are less impressive in retrospect because they didn't have a ton of success afterwards, even though Khabib's opponent's haven't been given the same opportunity to succeed or fail?
USADA can be mentioned all day when discrediting Jones & Silva, but this?
I'm not arguing Khabib is/isn't the GOAT, but wait 3 years and then I might allow this into the conversation.
etrofllenrod504
All Star
Usada didn't come into play into 2015. Jones career before any of that shyt was already goat status.
Conscious Pilot
Do Better.
They’re definitely up there
I AM WE ARE
Banned
For the record khabib would destroy gsp
I AM WE ARE
Banned
Losing doesn't disqualify you from the goat convo look at Ali
Bigblackted4
Superstar
Why doesn’t Cormier get any goat conversation talks his only losses are to Jones(Goat with asterisk) and Stipe(Goat UFC Heavyweight) who he also beat? Silva got like 5 losses and most people still calm him Goat level is Cormier at least top 10
I AM WE ARE
Banned
DC gets top 10 from me hands down. I mean he did beat Silva
But it was on 2 days notice and spider had recent gall bladder surgery. DC was too heavy for him