ogc163
Superstar
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Glenn Loury and John McWhorter discuss Ta-Nehisi Coates amongst other things
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Piff Perkins
Veteran
First off I like Coates and enjoy his work. Just bought his new book and will read it soon.
I agree with the general view about white people's response. I'm not questioning the intentions of white people who agree with Coates - anyone who agrees with Coates about the ills of white supremacy and wants to address it is cool in my book. But I've been turned off by the...white guilt involved in these defenses of him. David Brooks recently wrote an article criticizing Coates. Brooks' argument in of itself is crass and idiotic, but he brings up a good point in one sense: white people are essentially being told they must sit down and listen to the brilliance of Coates, and that any criticism cannot be tolerated.
Coates is not a god and thus deserves criticism, as everyone does. If a white person wants to come at him factually, so be it. But white liberalism seems rather intent on silencing criticism. We see this with Catelyn Jenner for instance. Not in terms of her transition, which I acknowledge and respect, but in terms of the merit of awarding her the ESPY for instance. Or the worth of her try-hard show. I find both of those things asinine yet it would be hard to make those points without being accused of being transphobic. Even though I support her. Likewise Coates has reached a similar platform where he is untouchable.
In terms of Baldwin...I love Baldwin. I like Coates' writing. However imitating another person's writing style rarely works. I'll read the book soon and see how it feels, prose wise. But everything I've heard suggests he's trying to be Baldwin. Nah.
I agree with the general view about white people's response. I'm not questioning the intentions of white people who agree with Coates - anyone who agrees with Coates about the ills of white supremacy and wants to address it is cool in my book. But I've been turned off by the...white guilt involved in these defenses of him. David Brooks recently wrote an article criticizing Coates. Brooks' argument in of itself is crass and idiotic, but he brings up a good point in one sense: white people are essentially being told they must sit down and listen to the brilliance of Coates, and that any criticism cannot be tolerated.
Coates is not a god and thus deserves criticism, as everyone does. If a white person wants to come at him factually, so be it. But white liberalism seems rather intent on silencing criticism. We see this with Catelyn Jenner for instance. Not in terms of her transition, which I acknowledge and respect, but in terms of the merit of awarding her the ESPY for instance. Or the worth of her try-hard show. I find both of those things asinine yet it would be hard to make those points without being accused of being transphobic. Even though I support her. Likewise Coates has reached a similar platform where he is untouchable.
In terms of Baldwin...I love Baldwin. I like Coates' writing. However imitating another person's writing style rarely works. I'll read the book soon and see how it feels, prose wise. But everything I've heard suggests he's trying to be Baldwin. Nah.
"Everything you've heard." Toni Morrison gave him that label, and then people began to critique the merits of this in the book. Many people have criticized his book, people like Brooks get chastised because of the stupidity of his critiques. While I can agree with other things you said here about no one being above criticism, the best criticisms of Coates have come from black people. A certain website had a running list of people's opinions on it. The most prominent one--and the one people have used to distinguish him from Baldwin--is that he does not offer a solution or hope at the end of his book. Baldwin on the other hand said you had to give hope to children. As for McWhorter, he's consistently a douchebag even when he's right. I agree with him sometimes but he's so dismissive of anyone who disagrees with him. Coates' writing style is what it is, if you've read him before then you know how he writes I don't understand why you need his book to judge that. Besides, every writer is drawing from other writers, that's not really a critique.
Dusty Bake Activate
Fukk your corny debates
Glenn Loury talking about be in league with the police because they're you're friends at the end. 
ogc163
Superstar
Glenn Loury talking about be in league with the police because they're you're friends at the end.
Yeah, he was bugging out with that one.
ogc163
Superstar
Mike Otherz
All Star
LRB · Thomas Chatterton Williams · Loaded Dice: Ta-Nehisi Coates
Ta-Nehisi Coates's Caricature of Black Reality
glenn loury, randall kennedy, thomas chatterson williams with some critical reviews of coates book. like dude said, white reviews for this book have been an absolute joke. cant think of one good one. its either out and out worship from liberals, or strawman arguments from conservatives. now these posted reviews are coming from dudes who are more conservative but still, we had to see people engage with it. i dont think coates and his critics here are in disagreement. we all agree systematic racism is the main culprit, and we all agree we still have agency to deal with that opression. its a "both and” argument rather than "either or”.
Ta-Nehisi Coates's Caricature of Black Reality
glenn loury, randall kennedy, thomas chatterson williams with some critical reviews of coates book. like dude said, white reviews for this book have been an absolute joke. cant think of one good one. its either out and out worship from liberals, or strawman arguments from conservatives. now these posted reviews are coming from dudes who are more conservative but still, we had to see people engage with it. i dont think coates and his critics here are in disagreement. we all agree systematic racism is the main culprit, and we all agree we still have agency to deal with that opression. its a "both and” argument rather than "either or”.