Epstein Thread: His brother says Barr cover up; Scumbag Alan Dershowitz asked Trump to pardon Maxwell; Epstein commits suicide! :damn:

[GnauzBookOfRhymes]

Jeffrey Epstein’s Brother Accuses Bill Barr of Covering Up His Sibling’s Death: ‘Who Was Bill Barr Protecting?’

Mark Epstein, the brother of deceased serial sex offender Jeffrey Epstein, accused former U.S. Attorney General Bill Barr of covering up his brother's death.

www.mediaite.com

 

[re'up]

If there was even a reasonably convincing alternative theory, as in WHO called the shot, who called the play, I would give it some credibility. But, to me, this is no different than the 2Pac killing. Everyone knew what it was. But, you still have a cabal of goons some whom were close to Pac saying nonsense on podcasts decades later. And there is never any real credible theory, like this is how you get someone touched in MCC, it always all conjecture, and well this doesn't look right, or the camera was broke? Americans are conspiratorial by nature.

Tell me who paid someone to kill Epstein, and make it look like a suicide, but not enough to convince everyone or anyone, do it in a weird way, like break his neck with a bedsheet. Why not just fukking kill him, straight away? if you have can doctor the cameras, pay off everyone, including the US Attorney, the FBI, the President, it's nonsense. It's imaginary child's Murder at 1600 with Wesley Snipes bullshyt.

Lots of people kill themselves rather than face trial, and there always some theory, and sometimes it may be true, in the case of two CJNG lieutenants who were found dead in their cells, pending extradition, yeah, that wasn't suicide. But, we are talking about Mexico. No conspiracy could involve that many people and be covered up. What the fukking guards were in on it? The blue collar goons who were shopping for bullshyt on the job? It's all time stamped. There's a whole indictment accounting for the guards. I read every page. My guess is NO ONE has done that besides me in here.

 

[gho3st]

If there was even a reasonably convincing alternative theory, as in WHO called the shot, who called the play, I would give it some credibility. But, to me, this is no different than the 2Pac killing. Everyone knew what it was. But, you still have a cabal of goons some whom were close to Pac saying nonsense on podcasts decades later. And there is never any real credible theory, like this is how you get someone touched in MCC, it always all conjecture, and well this doesn't look right, or the camera was broke? Americans are conspiratorial by nature.

Tell me who paid someone to kill Epstein, and make it look like a suicide, but not enough to convince everyone or anyone, do it in a weird way, like break his neck with a bedsheet. Why not just fukking kill him, straight away? if you have can doctor the cameras, pay off everyone, including the US Attorney, the FBI, the President, it's nonsense. It's imaginary child's Murder at 1600 with Wesley Snipes bullshyt.

Lots of people kill themselves rather than face trial, and there always some theory, and sometimes it may be true, in the case of two CJNG lieutenants who were found dead in their cells, pending extradition, yeah, that wasn't suicide. But, we are talking about Mexico. No conspiracy could involve that many people and be covered up. What the fukking guards were in on it? The blue collar goons who were shopping for bullshyt on the job? It's all time stamped. There's a whole indictment accounting for the guards. I read every page. My guess is NO ONE has done that besides me in here.

Dog didnt the coroner say his suicide injuries were not consistent with death by hanging???

this is different from tupac's death which ahd witnesses

 

[re'up]

Dog didnt the coroner say his suicide injuries were not consistent with death by hanging???

this is different from tupac's death which ahd witnesses

Theres a famous case in San Diego like this from 2011, where a woman hanged herself, and the family is still pushing for a murder cause of death. A decade later.

The coroner his family probably hired to do an independent autopsy. Any high profile death exposes the kind of fragility of these systems. People, in general don't have much knowledge of the worlds outside their own, that's why they think

Prison cameras in the MCC always work

The guards would never slack off

Family members can dispute the cause of death, esp. when it's suicide, happens all the time in high profile cases

People like the Royal Family or the Clintons or the Trumps aren't ordering murders to protect themselves, when they are already afforded so much protection, they don't need to. Look at Prince Andrew.

Someone like Epstein, for as revered and notorious as he was, is just a man. Just a weak, weak man who saw his life was over and wanted out.

We come up with conspiracies to explain away the complexities of ourselves and the world around us.

 

[gho3st]

Theres a famous case in San Diego like this from 2011, where a woman hanged herself, and the family is still pushing for a murder cause of death. A decade later.

The coroner his family probably hired to do an independent autopsy. Any high profile death exposes the kind of fragility of these systems. People, in general don't have much knowledge of the worlds outside their own, that's why they think

Prison cameras in the MCC always work

The guards would never slack off

Family members can dispute the cause of death, esp. when it's suicide, happens all the time in high profile cases

People like the Royal Family or the Clintons or the Trumps are ordering murders to protect themselves, when they are already afforded so much protection, they don't need to. Look at Prince Andrew.

Someone like Epstein, for as revered and notorious as he was, is just a man. Just a weak, weak man who saw his life was over and wanted out.

We come up with conspiracies to explain away the complexities of ourselves and the world around us.

So what is the coincidence that all these things happen at once?
1) prison guard slack off
2) cameras for a high profile prisoner do not work
3) suicide injuries do not align with injuries caused by suicide by hanging

 

[GnauzBookOfRhymes]

If there was even a reasonably convincing alternative theory, as in WHO called the shot, who called the play, I would give it some credibility. But, to me, this is no different than the 2Pac killing. Everyone knew what it was. But, you still have a cabal of goons some whom were close to Pac saying nonsense on podcasts decades later. And there is never any real credible theory, like this is how you get someone touched in MCC, it always all conjecture, and well this doesn't look right, or the camera was broke? Americans are conspiratorial by nature.

Tell me who paid someone to kill Epstein, and make it look like a suicide, but not enough to convince everyone or anyone, do it in a weird way, like break his neck with a bedsheet. Why not just fukking kill him, straight away? if you have can doctor the cameras, pay off everyone, including the US Attorney, the FBI, the President, it's nonsense. It's imaginary child's Murder at 1600 with Wesley Snipes bullshyt.

Lots of people kill themselves rather than face trial, and there always some theory, and sometimes it may be true, in the case of two CJNG lieutenants who were found dead in their cells, pending extradition, yeah, that wasn't suicide. But, we are talking about Mexico. No conspiracy could involve that many people and be covered up. What the fukking guards were in on it? The blue collar goons who were shopping for bullshyt on the job? It's all time stamped. There's a whole indictment accounting for the guards. I read every page. My guess is NO ONE has done that besides me in here.

DAMMMMMMMNNNN brehhhh,,.....you read a 20 page indictment? A whole 20 pages? For real? Cmon man you must've just scanned some of the pages....cause 20 pages? That's gotta be some kind of record. I was skeptical at first, but now that I know you read 20 pages, double spaced with 12 pt courier font no less, you've clearly established mastery over the topic.

I mean some of the stuff we say in here is tongue in cheek. But clearly there's something about this case that strains credulity, and it's not uncommon for the government to react to stories/incidents/liabilities/events in ways that suggest its discomfort with full disclosure....for a wide range of reasons, legitimate and otherwise. Oftentimes it doesn't require some widespread active conspiracy. People who are experienced can sense when things shouldn't be pursued, and generally speaking they don't. This happens every single day at every level of government. The fact that something like this might've happened in a case this public might be rare but it's not unprecedented.

If you read more history you'd realize all of this. THis is what happened with Iran Contra and to a lesser extent even the 9/11 report (with respect to Saudi involvement, I'm not suggesting there was a Bush supported conspiracy), the US Liberty incident etc etc.

Read the OIG report and you can sense what's going on. A lot of prevaricating, hemming and hawing.

 

[re'up]

DAMMMMMMMNNNN brehhhh,,.....you read a 20 page indictment? A whole 20 pages? For real? Cmon man you must've just scanned some of the pages....cause 20 pages? That's gotta be some kind of record. I was skeptical at first, but now that I know you read 20 pages, double spaced with 12 pt courier font no less, you've clearly established mastery over the topic.

I mean some of the stuff we say in here is tongue in cheek. But clearly there's something about this case that strains credulity, and it's not uncommon for the government to react to stories/incidents/liabilities/events in ways that suggest its discomfort with full disclosure....for a wide range of reasons, legitimate and otherwise. Oftentimes it doesn't require some widespread active conspiracy. People who are experienced can sense when things shouldn't be pursued, and generally speaking they don't. This happens every single day at every level of government. The fact that something like this might've happened in a case this public might be rare but it's not unprecedented.

If you read more history you'd realize all of this. THis is what happened with Iran Contra and to a lesser extent even the 9/11 report (with respect to Saudi involvement, I'm not suggesting there was a Bush supported conspiracy), the US Liberty incident etc etc.

Read the OIG report and you can sense what's going on. A lot of prevaricating, hemming and hawing.

I have read a lot more about the case, books, all the indictments, dozens and dozens of coverage of Epstein and Maxwell, lol but appreciate the humor-- mean for those who are so convinced of conspiracy, and haven't read the indictment that detailed the guards conduct down to the minute. People always say FACTS EVIDENCE. it's right there that these goons were like on the Amazon ordering dirt bikes or whatever.

I am even pretty sure that conspiracies in the social media age are even harder. At some point with most conspiracies, it's more profitable to tell your story. And thats why like the 2Pac killing, people said he faked his death. For years. Wouldn't be told different. And the still do. I don't think that's much different then the Epstein theories. No one ever detailed how Pac could pay off a dozen plus officials, the coroners, the police chief, the FBI, for sure you can corrupt people but not everyone all the time. At every branch of government.

People said Maxwell would be killed. She got her 20. She's chilling in a FCI.

 

[re'up]

So what is the coincidence that all these things happen at once?
1) prison guard slack off
2) cameras for a high profile prisoner do not work
3) suicide injuries do not align with injuries caused by suicide by hanging

All three of those things routinely happen, but "we" have no framework for how often it does,

there's reporting about conditions in MCC going back a few years.

prisons guards slack off all the time

There are conflicting cause of death reports all the time. it's just this one because of the profile, people are hyper focused on.

 

[gho3st]

All three of those things routinely happen, but "we" have no framework for how often it does,

there's reporting about conditions in MCC going back a few years.

prisons guards slack off all the time

There are conflicting cause of death reports all the time. it's just this one because of the profile, people are hyper focused on.

You seem set for one thought process and not willing to acknowledging any other thoughts or possibilities.

you got it

 

[GnauzBookOfRhymes]

I have read a lot more about the case, books, all the indictments, dozens and dozens of coverage of Epstein and Maxwell, lol but appreciate the humor-- mean for those who are so convinced of conspiracy, and haven't read the indictment that detailed the guards conduct down to the minute. People always say FACTS EVIDENCE. it's right there that these goons were like on the Amazon ordering dirt bikes or whatever.

I am even pretty sure that conspiracies in the social media age are even harder. At some point with most conspiracies, it's more profitable to tell your story. And thats why like the 2Pac killing, people said he faked his death. For years. Wouldn't be told different. And the still do. I don't think that's much different then the Epstein theories. No one ever detailed how Pac could pay off a dozen plus officials, the coroners, the police chief, the FBI, for sure you can corrupt people but not everyone all the time. At every branch of government.

People said Maxwell would be killed. She got her 20. She's chilling in a FCI.

Why are you talking about 2pac

I mean I get that this could just be a routine case of institutional corruption. Guards/employees falsifying records isn't new so maybe MCC did whatever they could to limit their liability. 1, 2 or 3 coincidences is one thing...but there are too many extenuating factors to think this is all just a "perfect storm" of negligence/accidents etc.

The camera's all of a sudden go haywire right around the time of the first "suicide" attempt. MCC/Feds says we can't find the footage, then it's yes we have the footage and will release it, they disclose a video but when it's obvious it's not showing the view to epstein's cell, they claim a clerical error caused them to preserve the video from the wrong tier and the one from epstein's tier was deleted. What about the backup systems? Oh those malfunctioned as well. The OIG report says they didn't realize half the cameras in the entire jail weren't saving video until August 8. The tech told someone he was going to fix it that same day, but instead decided to just go home bc he figured one more day wouldn't be a big deal. The next day he wasn't able to fix the issue bc supposedly the employee who had the keys to the room that had all of the extra hard drives wouldn't open the door for him .

Epstein was found dead the next day. The necessary repairs were began that same day. The FBI analyzes the camera systems that failed and determine there was a "catastrophic failure" and that no recordings were recoverable after July 29 - which is the date that Epstein was transferred back to the SHU after his first "suicide" attempt.


That's not even getting into the fact that they retained for evidence only one of two nooses found in the cell. The photo used in the OIG report shows the noose that they're claiming was used but they didn't include the other. The OIG report said "he "ripped" the noose off the bunk so he could get epstein out. Noel (the female officer) said she heard Thomas call out for her to retrieve the cutter and then she heard Thomas rip something. The noose retained for evidence is hemmed at both ends, was never cut/ripped and didn't have any blood on it.

The other noose that for some reason wasn't kept...

 

[re'up]

Why are you talking about 2pac

I mean I get that this could just be a routine case of institutional corruption. Guards/employees falsifying records isn't new so maybe MCC did whatever they could to limit their liability. 1, 2 or 3 coincidences is one thing...but there are too many extenuating factors to think this is all just a "perfect storm" of negligence/accidents etc.

The camera's all of a sudden go haywire right around the time of the first "suicide" attempt. MCC/Feds says we can't find the footage, then it's yes we have the footage and will release it, they disclose a video but when it's obvious it's not showing the view to epstein's cell, they claim a clerical error caused them to preserve the video from the wrong tier and the one from epstein's tier was deleted. What about the backup systems? Oh those malfunctioned as well. The OIG report says they didn't realize half the cameras in the entire jail weren't saving video until August 8. The tech told someone he was going to fix it that same day, but instead decided to just go home bc he figured one more day wouldn't be a big deal. The next day he wasn't able to fix the issue bc supposedly the employee who had the keys to the room that had all of the extra hard drives wouldn't open the door for him .

Epstein was found dead the next day. The necessary repairs were began that same day. The FBI analyzes the camera systems that failed and determine there was a "catastrophic failure" and that no recordings were recoverable after July 29 - which is the date that Epstein was transferred back to the SHU after his first "suicide" attempt.


That's not even getting into the fact that they retained for evidence only one of two nooses found in the cell. The photo used in the OIG report shows the noose that they're claiming was used but they didn't include the other. The OIG report said "he "ripped" the noose off the bunk so he could get epstein out. Noel (the female officer) said she heard Thomas call out for her to retrieve the cutter and then she heard Thomas rip something. The noose retained for evidence is hemmed at both ends, was never cut/ripped and didn't have any blood on it.

The other noose that for some reason wasn't kept...

Part of the 2Pac stuff was this--one of my main positions would be if you apply this level of scrutiny to ANY killing that is high profile, or slightly ambiguous, and you will find things like this. There are probably others that YOU believe are suicides, but anyone could find some inconsistency or perceived inconsistency.

To me, it's possible but not probable that an inmate killed him, his cellmate, the ex cop is a good suspect, for his own reasons, and because he had killed 4 people before with his hands-- but that wouldn't explain why it was done in such an ambiguous way. Why not beat him to death? Why not stab him? Why do this weird ambiguous thing?

What I think is not possible, is some kind of grand conspiracy, involving multiple factions of government, and some kind of hired killer who would have to housed at MCC and NOT talk. Not tell other inmates. Not tell his boys on the outside, and be trusted to forever hold his silence.

That, to me, is extremely unlikely. Bordering on fantastical. Barr is compromised. TRUMP kept his mouth shut? The MCC director/staff/OIG kept their mouths shut? The Southern District team kept their mouths shut?

The family and parents NEVER accept suicide. They always have a theory. "we just think it doesn't feel right". I like the convo though man. thanks.

 

[re'up]

and of course, yeah, there's some covering up of the sheer level of incompetence dysfunction at the MCC. Absolutely, there is some bullshyt there. Imagine if they did release the footage of the first attempt, everyone would be outraged that nothing else was done. They just talked to him and let him go right back. This is where we house our most dangerous/important inmates, and it's treated with the seriousness of a grade school detention area? So, for sure some coverup there. I bet there are things they will never release, but I don't think it was a murder ordered by the Clintons or Royal Family, or insert whomever villain.

Life is weird. Life is inconsistent. People act in strange ways.

Also, interesting aside from Geoff Berman's book, is that Epstein wanted to cooperate, and his attorney ran into Berman out shopping or whatever. and Berman said we are interested in having a conversation. Esptein said there was a condition that he not be referred to as a sexual predator, and Berman shut the whole thing down.

 

[GnauzBookOfRhymes]

Part of the 2Pac stuff was this--one of my main positions would be if you apply this level of scrutiny to ANY killing that is high profile, or slightly ambiguous, and you will find things like this. There are probably others that YOU believe are suicides, but anyone could find some inconsistency or perceived inconsistency.

But is this even that high of a level of scrutiny? The other noose was clearly visible and even photographed.

To me, it's possible but not probable that an inmate killed him, his cellmate, the ex cop is a good suspect, for his own reasons, and because he had killed 4 people before with his hands--

That ex cop was who epstein initially claimed attacked him in July. But the cop claimed epstein was trying to kill himself and that he intervened. When they tried to interview epstein about it afterwards he started claiming he didn't remember what happened.

but that wouldn't explain why it was done in such an ambiguous way. Why not beat him to death? Why not stab him? Why do this weird ambiguous thing?

I think the guy definitely tried to kill him. He was never going to get out of his case bc his friends and I believe even his codefendants snitched. Maybe he thought the "powers that be" would look favorably on him....or maybe he hated ppl accused of raping kids etc.

Beating/stabbing takes a long time and can be noisy.

Not sure it's very ambiguous to be honest. The mark on his neck suggests strangulation.

He has wounds/marks on the back of his neck, which generally isn't something you see with hangings. But you do with strangulation.

I'm not suggesting it was the royal family or whomever else you keep bringing up. Just saying the odds seem to me this wasn't your standard jailhouse suicide. Just too many coincidences the end result of which seems to be motivated by a desire to obscure what actually happened.

The thing is, if we agree the MCC was a hotbed of corruption then why is it so difficult to believe that someone wouldn't take advantage of that to eliminate whatever liabilities they may believe exist with Epstein still alive?

 

[re'up]

But is this even that high of a level of scrutiny? The other noose was clearly visible and even photographed.


That ex cop was who epstein initially claimed attacked him in July. But the cop claimed epstein was trying to kill himself and that he intervened. When they tried to interview epstein about it afterwards he started claiming he didn't remember what happened.


I think the guy definitely tried to kill him. He was never going to get out of his case bc his friends and I believe even his codefendants snitched. Maybe he thought the "powers that be" would look favorably on him....or maybe he hated ppl accused of raping kids etc.

Beating/stabbing takes a long time and can be noisy.

Not sure it's very ambiguous to be honest. The mark on his neck suggests strangulation.

He has wounds/marks on the back of his neck, which generally isn't something you see with hangings. But you do with strangulation.

I'm not suggesting it was the royal family or whomever else you keep bringing up. Just saying the odds seem to me this wasn't your standard jailhouse suicide. Just too many coincidences the end result of which seems to be motivated by a desire to obscure what actually happened.

The thing is, if we agree the MCC was a hotbed of corruption then why is it so difficult to believe that someone wouldn't take advantage of that to eliminate whatever liabilities they may believe exist with Epstein still alive?

All interesting stuff. I think anyone can get too far in the weeds with autopsy reports and what a "typical strangulation" looks like. Yes, a lot of scrutiny. The minute this broke all eyes were on this. What kind of conspiracy, esp. with that administration could hold up?

If the ex cop, Nichlas Tagiiohone or whatever did it, why not just prosecute him? Feds handle those cases all the time. On your last point, I don't see a straight line between whomever this mystery mastermind is and a hit in the MCC. Again, done in such an ambiguous way. Due to who Epstein was, and what his life was, we will always question everything. I think Epstein saw no other way out. He lost the bail hearing. He lost the cooperation chance. All that waits is more of a miserable life. Epstein had this painting on his house, some twisted weird shyt with like handcuffs on a naked man or something, and someone asked him about it, and he said, it was because he knew everyday he could go back to prison.

and how many normal suicide/stranglings do either of us examine? And it's very very typical for the family to get a second autopsy with a hired gun. Not saying it's all bullshyt, but those are paid experts, who can always find another interpretation of the data. That happens all the time. Even in gunshot cases.

I think moreso than a hotbed of corruption, I would say dysfunction. Laziness, human error, bureaucratic bullshyt, budget issues.

 

[re'up]

Stabbing is quick and efficient. If there is a whole conspiracy, they can't get him a prison shank or a razor? I know you can't prove a negative, just throwing that in there too. They make him do it in a way that is unlikely to convince anyone, outside of whoever knows what really happened.