Employers Are Deflating Salaries in Job Listings to Keep Pay Down

morris

Superstar
Joined
Oct 8, 2014
Messages
16,522
Reputation
4,925
Daps
36,251
by Jeff Green and Matthew Boyle


(Bloomberg) -- Jobseekers are learning that there’s the top end of the pay scale, and then there’s the real top end.

Employers have taken a broad interpretation to laws meant to make pay more transparent. When the new rules launched in New York City, some pay ranges were so wide — for example, $100,000 from bottom to top — as to be almost useless. When the Colorado law kicked in, some employers reduced their job postings in the state. The emergence of lowball salary ranges will only add to the confusion and frustration of workers, and could also hurt the credibility of corporate HR departments at a time when employees are already feeling burnt out and disconnected with their employers.

“There are companies intentionally posting salary ranges below their actual salary bands for job seekers,” said Jamie Coakley, senior vice president of people at Electric, which provides remote IT services for small- and medium-sized businesses. “It’s a risky choice that is not in good faith of what the salary will be, which is the entire purpose of the law.”

JQKEXBT7V4I63BZY5VZBPXRHOU.jpg

Most Companies Still Lack Pay Transparency | At more than half of firms, only HR and finance know who gets paid what
© Bloomberg

The high end of a typical pay range should be between 40% and 60% above the minimum, said Justin Hampton, founder of CompTool, which compiles and analyzes salary data in online job listings. For a job that starts at $50,000, the top range should be between $70,000 and $80,000. Data that Hampton has compiled recently from more than 12 million job listings taken from more than 100 sites show the range is only about 28% for job listings in the US, so the top advertised pay for that job might only be $64,000 even if the actual pay could be as high as $80,000 for some workers. The data, along with comments from clients about the practice, make it clear it’s not a hypothetical, but a real practice, he said.

“Employees are not stupid,” said Naranjo. “What will happen for those employers [who lowball ranges], is that employees are going to take the job offer and then say ‘Wait, there’s actually a different salary band?’ And then you erode trust.”

While it’s hard to prove in any specific job posting, that truncated range might reflect employers’ reluctance to post the actual high end, for fear that all applicants will expect to get it or that existing employees will see it and demand a raise. A recent forum discussion Hampton hosted on the topic featured more than a half dozen executives discussing the practice. Details weren’t available because the discussion was private, but he confirmed that HR executives were generally concerned that applicants would ask for too much money and existing employees might ask for raises if the full range was used.

The red-hot labor market of the past two years has sparked a rise in so-called salary compression, which happens when companies have to keep raising starting salaries just to get people in the door, narrowing the difference between what the newbies make and what current staffers in the same role receive. With the job market still very tight, companies are getting squeezed, but they also do themselves no favors by keeping employees in the dark about their compensation practices.

“It is hard work to prepare your organization to make sure everyone is paid correctly, and to make sure managers are prepared to have hard conversations about why someone's pay is at the bottom of the salary range,” said Mikaela Kiner, founder and chief executive officer of Reverb, a Seattle-based consultancy that handles human resources operations for startups. “People shy away from that work. But this is not something to play around with.”

So far, both Colorado and New York City have focused on simply ensuring every job posting actually has a range, rather than deciding whether they’re appropriate. Enforcement might be more stringent when new laws kick off 2023 in California and Washington, said Christopher Patrick, a principal in employment law firm Jackson Lewis’s Denver office. In Washington, for instance, employers are required to disclose the full range for the job, even if the actual intended pay range for the open job might be lower — so lowballing the true maximum pay might violate the law there, Patrick said.

It’s unclear for now how California and Washington will approach enforcement, and most of the agencies have said they won’t fine a company for a first violation. When infringements occur, they are prosecuted as labor law violations, which carry stiff penalties. The fact that the rules vary so much is making compliance difficult and costly, said Emily dikkens, head of government affairs at the Society for Human Resource Management. “I don’t think employers are trying to be cute with this,” she said. “This is difficult.”

In the meantime, companies should explain their compensation strategy to both existing workers and potential hires, rather than trying to manage expectations with disingenuous pay ranges, said Reverb’s Kiner.

“I believe in transparency and honesty,” she said. “This doesn't seem to fit either one.”
 

Yapdatfool

Superstar
Joined
May 5, 2012
Messages
8,365
Reputation
1,124
Daps
22,055
Reppin
NULL
Get a job, keep pushing your resume, let them pay all that money to on board you and dip to the next company. fukk em
Yep. I always found it funny how employers want 2 week notice yet they can let you go with 0 in at will states...

Then they wanna act surprised when employees leave...
 

IIVI

Superstar
Joined
Mar 11, 2022
Messages
11,564
Reputation
2,744
Daps
39,260
Reppin
Los Angeles
fukk you. Pay me.

You keep that in mind and you're good.

Less pay, no remote and they wonder why talent don't want to work for them and go to their competition instead :mjlol:

They try and hire less talented people that will settle for crappy conditions because it's work, but then they only end up releasing a horribly embarrassing product with bugs and potential legal liability.

Meanwhile their competition is thriving and making them look pathetic.
 
Last edited:

SadimirPutin

Superstar
Joined
Oct 15, 2015
Messages
15,604
Reputation
2,217
Daps
59,509
When you do the interview ask what is the pay range....

Ask them to specify if it is different than the job listing...get an email paper trail of their responses

If yiu are offered the position ask HR to confirm the pay scale and what you need to do to move up the scale

If you are black they are trying to underpay you......always remember that
 

XannyWarbucks

Superstar
Joined
Dec 18, 2017
Messages
4,009
Reputation
632
Daps
18,405
It's crazy how these companies cry about high-turnover and people not wanting to work, when they refuse to pay you, can fire you whenever and 99% of the time the job is completely different from what was advertised.
 

At30wecashout

Veteran
Supporter
Joined
Sep 2, 2014
Messages
36,358
Reputation
18,406
Daps
166,107
These are 100% facts. Everytime I look at Glassdoor salary for tech roles I hit the
boy-aint.gif



There has to be some kind of manipulation with these companies going on
Yup. You look at those ranges and have no earthly fukking idea what they really are. To this day I dont know the pay band for the position I was hired in a year ago :mjlol: I wonder if I left a couple grand on the table. Even then they tried to lowball me a bit.
 

Wild self

The Black Man will prosper!
Supporter
Joined
Jun 20, 2012
Messages
81,391
Reputation
11,583
Daps
219,596
Yep. I always found it funny how employers want 2 week notice yet they can let you go with 0 in at will states...

Then they wanna act surprised when employees leave...
At-will states aka the flyover states, you cannot build a life by being a non union employee.
 

Rekkapryde

GT, LWO, 49ERS, BRAVES, HAWKS, N4O...yeah UMAD!
Supporter
Joined
May 1, 2012
Messages
149,779
Reputation
27,109
Daps
504,074
Reppin
TYRONE GA!
by Jeff Green and Matthew Boyle


(Bloomberg) -- Jobseekers are learning that there’s the top end of the pay scale, and then there’s the real top end.

Employers have taken a broad interpretation to laws meant to make pay more transparent. When the new rules launched in New York City, some pay ranges were so wide — for example, $100,000 from bottom to top — as to be almost useless. When the Colorado law kicked in, some employers reduced their job postings in the state. The emergence of lowball salary ranges will only add to the confusion and frustration of workers, and could also hurt the credibility of corporate HR departments at a time when employees are already feeling burnt out and disconnected with their employers.

“There are companies intentionally posting salary ranges below their actual salary bands for job seekers,” said Jamie Coakley, senior vice president of people at Electric, which provides remote IT services for small- and medium-sized businesses. “It’s a risky choice that is not in good faith of what the salary will be, which is the entire purpose of the law.”

JQKEXBT7V4I63BZY5VZBPXRHOU.jpg

Most Companies Still Lack Pay Transparency | At more than half of firms, only HR and finance know who gets paid what
© Bloomberg

The high end of a typical pay range should be between 40% and 60% above the minimum, said Justin Hampton, founder of CompTool, which compiles and analyzes salary data in online job listings. For a job that starts at $50,000, the top range should be between $70,000 and $80,000. Data that Hampton has compiled recently from more than 12 million job listings taken from more than 100 sites show the range is only about 28% for job listings in the US, so the top advertised pay for that job might only be $64,000 even if the actual pay could be as high as $80,000 for some workers. The data, along with comments from clients about the practice, make it clear it’s not a hypothetical, but a real practice, he said.

“Employees are not stupid,” said Naranjo. “What will happen for those employers [who lowball ranges], is that employees are going to take the job offer and then say ‘Wait, there’s actually a different salary band?’ And then you erode trust.”

While it’s hard to prove in any specific job posting, that truncated range might reflect employers’ reluctance to post the actual high end, for fear that all applicants will expect to get it or that existing employees will see it and demand a raise. A recent forum discussion Hampton hosted on the topic featured more than a half dozen executives discussing the practice. Details weren’t available because the discussion was private, but he confirmed that HR executives were generally concerned that applicants would ask for too much money and existing employees might ask for raises if the full range was used.

The red-hot labor market of the past two years has sparked a rise in so-called salary compression, which happens when companies have to keep raising starting salaries just to get people in the door, narrowing the difference between what the newbies make and what current staffers in the same role receive. With the job market still very tight, companies are getting squeezed, but they also do themselves no favors by keeping employees in the dark about their compensation practices.

“It is hard work to prepare your organization to make sure everyone is paid correctly, and to make sure managers are prepared to have hard conversations about why someone's pay is at the bottom of the salary range,” said Mikaela Kiner, founder and chief executive officer of Reverb, a Seattle-based consultancy that handles human resources operations for startups. “People shy away from that work. But this is not something to play around with.”

So far, both Colorado and New York City have focused on simply ensuring every job posting actually has a range, rather than deciding whether they’re appropriate. Enforcement might be more stringent when new laws kick off 2023 in California and Washington, said Christopher Patrick, a principal in employment law firm Jackson Lewis’s Denver office. In Washington, for instance, employers are required to disclose the full range for the job, even if the actual intended pay range for the open job might be lower — so lowballing the true maximum pay might violate the law there, Patrick said.

It’s unclear for now how California and Washington will approach enforcement, and most of the agencies have said they won’t fine a company for a first violation. When infringements occur, they are prosecuted as labor law violations, which carry stiff penalties. The fact that the rules vary so much is making compliance difficult and costly, said Emily dikkens, head of government affairs at the Society for Human Resource Management. “I don’t think employers are trying to be cute with this,” she said. “This is difficult.”

In the meantime, companies should explain their compensation strategy to both existing workers and potential hires, rather than trying to manage expectations with disingenuous pay ranges, said Reverb’s Kiner.

“I believe in transparency and honesty,” she said. “This doesn't seem to fit either one.”

Companies doing this are morons. That's why there are so many openings.
 

RedCloakBlackWraithe

.....
Supporter
Joined
Aug 30, 2015
Messages
18,685
Reputation
3,256
Daps
37,943
someone explain this to me like I'm a 5 year old
every job or position has a pay band (range of salary for the role) typically you're paid more after satisfactory yearly performance evaluations. after a number of years you should hit the top of that range if you've performed satisfactorily in each performance evaluation. after you hit the maximum of that pay range (2-5 years) you should be trying to become the next rung up in your organisation for that position. It's why you're told if you aren't able to move up after 2 years you should change jobs, there's likely some manipulation happening if you're as good or better than other people doing your job and you're not getting paid more.
 
Top