“Discounts Don't Matter...When the Whole Gang Gon' EAT"" Official 2024 NY Knicks off-season Thread

[storyteller]

it says a lot that no one thinks the easiest solution to all this Randle showing up in the playoffs is a viable solution. It’s the lack of faith in him that really caps the Knicks ceiling.

The irony is that the way he's playing this season feels translatable. He should be alright if his reactions are as fast as they've been this season.

But there's a concern that I mentioned in a recent recap. If a team shows him one kind of defensive approach, he starts expecting that defense. So, when they adjust or change their approach, his reads start to lag. That's when the turnovers go up, and he starts looking out of sorts. In the postseason, teams make faster adjustments, so this could be a problem again.

 

[RickyGQ]

You could probably argue that it's gotta be a top-5 player with a top-20 or 30 guy behind him. Since 2015 the Finals MVPs have been
Bron (twice)
KD (twice)
Kawhi
Giannis
Curry
Jokic

Iguodala is the outlier in 2015, and was BS. Steph was the real MVP.

Then it's Kawhi, Bron, Dirk, and Kobe.

So it's even more limiting when we look at it that way. Though, I would argue that I don't think the "short guys don't win" thing is as relevant in the modern NBA. The rules have tilted so heavily toward ball-handlers that I think a player like Brunson, Ja, Mitchell or Fox can be the best player across any 7-game series (To Clarify: Not EVERY series, but any series...if they get hot, they can outscore and outplay ANYONE for 7 games).

My main marker for "can a short guy be THE guy" is efficiency. Has that player managed 25 PPG on 47% or higher across a season? It's fairly arbitrary, but basically, if you could round up a guard's shooting percentage to about 50% AND he's giving you 25 ppg a night, then I believe you have a championship-caliber first option.

You’re 100% right. But a guard still hasn’t done it yet. We can speculate all we want whether it’s possible today but until we see it, it’s not crazy to assume that this might just be the rule.

We can all pretty much agree that Ja is the best small guard in the league (Steph doesn’t count). If we did a one for one swap with Brunson, are we title contenders?

 

[RickyGQ]

This rush to tear Brunson down is weird when he's exceeding all expectations ppl had when he got here.

Also if we're talking about the ceiling on this team. Let keep in mind, Brunson is not the All-NBA/All-Star who never shows up for a playoff series.

I think that’s cause everyone accepts Julius for what he is.

 

[KnickstapeCity]

I think that’s cause everyone accepts Julius for what he is.

Julius got a….. You know the rest, breh

 

[storyteller]

You’re 100% right. But a guard still hasn’t done it yet. We can speculate all we want whether it’s possible today but until we see it, it’s not crazy to assume that this might just be the rule.

We can all pretty much agree that Ja is the best small guard in the league (Steph doesn’t count). If we did a one for one swap with Brunson, are we title contenders?

The gap between Ja and Brunson isn't that crazy imo (not because Ja's overrated, Brunson's just criminally underrated). If you swap places, I think Brunson surrounded by Bane and JJJ wouldn't miss a beat. Ja would still be Ja on the Knicks, and they'd still be "one piece away."

There was an old theory from one of the older analytics writers; that you needed two top-15 playoff performers to win a chip. Brunson and Ja are both capable of being that. Get them one more top-15 guy, and their team has a genuine chance to make a run to the title. But other variables impact it: match-ups, injuries, etc.

Basically, what I'm getting at is that the problem isn't the undersized guards. An elite player, is an elite player, and the numbers don't lie. But even the GOATs needed a second star...Bron needed Wade. Kobe had Shaq and then Pau. Jordan had Pippen.

 

[Wargames]

Julius got a….. You know the rest, breh

Why he smiling and looking downward Breh?

 

[KnickstapeCity]

Why he smiling and looking downward Breh?

 

[mvp_status]

I think that’s cause everyone accepts Julius for what he is.

It seems ppl are just thirsty to find something to pick at. shyts corny

They probably 5-6 players in the entire league you swap in for Brunson last year and they go further with the same Knicks roster. That's how good he was in that playoffs.

But because he's not in that class overall, we should do what, move on from him? Is this really the argument?

And then do nothing with Randle because apparently we built his postseason fukk shyt into our algorithm

 

[RickyGQ]

The gap between Ja and Brunson isn't that crazy imo (not because Ja's overrated, Brunson's just criminally underrated). If you swap places, I think Brunson surrounded by Bane and JJJ wouldn't miss a beat. Ja would still be Ja on the Knicks, and they'd still be "one piece away."

There was an old theory from one of the older analytics writers; that you needed two top-15 playoff performers to win a chip. Brunson and Ja are both capable of being that. Get them one more top-15 guy, and their team has a genuine chance to make a run to the title. But other variables impact it: match-ups, injuries, etc.

Basically, what I'm getting at is that the problem isn't the undersized guards. An elite player, is an elite player, and the numbers don't lie. But even the GOATs needed a second star...Bron needed Wade. Kobe had Shaq and then Pau. Jordan had Pippen.

Im just saying that I don’t think it’s a coincidence that the best pg in isn’t enough. If you swapped Jalen with Tatum or Embiid I’d think we’d be viewed vastly differently. Like, i don’t think a non Steph pg is capable of being viewed as a potential mvp level talent. The degree of difficulty is just too high at that size.

 

[RickyGQ]

It seems ppl are just thirsty to find something to pick at. shyts corny

They probably 5-6 players in the entire league you swap in for Brunson last year and they go further with the same Knicks roster. That's how good he was in that playoffs.

But because he's not in that class overall, we should do what, move on from him? Is this really the argument?

And then do nothing with Randle because apparently we built his postseason fukk shyt into our algorithm

Yea. That part is annoying. There’s a bunch of teams on the bubble that don’t get scrutinized like we do. But that’s cause we move the needle. We know this. If the Lakers were a bubble 5-8 seed caliber team there would be all types of talk about how they need that GUY to take them over.

 

[storyteller]

Im just saying that I don’t think it’s a coincidence that the best pg in isn’t enough. If you swapped Jalen with Tatum or Embiid I’d think we’d be viewed vastly differently. Like, i don’t think a non Steph pg is capable of being viewed as a potential mvp level talent. The degree of difficulty is just too high at that size.

I don’t disagree that if you switch Jalen with a top-5 player that we’d be viewed different. But I don’t think that changes the fact, you can win chips with undersized guards as star players. Becky and many other nba media talk about Brunson like he can’t have the ball at the end of a close game; and that’s definitely not true. Those are the possessions where you need “the guy” and I can only think of a handful of guys I’d rather give the ball (two of which are also small guards in Dame and Donovan).

The mvp thing, I think is a faulty assumption. Steve Nash robbed MVP awards from more deserving players. AI, another small guard was a top-three MVP vote getter. Chris Paul has been top-five in MVP voting a lot in his career (runner up to Kobe one time). Ja got 7th two years ago and would have been higher last year if didn’t go John Wick on Instagram Live. Also, Brunson got one vote last season and Donovan Mitchell came in 6th.

I do agree that there’s an assumption about winning with small players. But I can name a few undersized PGs with rings that played significant roles in their championships. Tony Parker being the big example. I just think winning a ring is rare for everybody; and undersized players are automatically an outlier, so of course they’ll have less examples of success than average nba builds.

 

[seemorecizzy]

The gap between Ja and Brunson isn't that crazy imo (not because Ja's overrated, Brunson's just criminally underrated). If you swap places, I think Brunson surrounded by Bane and JJJ wouldn't miss a beat. Ja would still be Ja on the Knicks, and they'd still be "one piece away."

There was an old theory from one of the older analytics writers; that you needed two top-15 playoff performers to win a chip. Brunson and Ja are both capable of being that. Get them one more top-15 guy, and their team has a genuine chance to make a run to the title. But other variables impact it: match-ups, injuries, etc.

Basically, what I'm getting at is that the problem isn't the undersized guards. An elite player, is an elite player, and the numbers don't lie. But even the GOATs needed a second star...Bron needed Wade. Kobe had Shaq and then Pau. Jordan had Pippen.

Yes it is lol
but i agree that brunson would fit well with memphis, shyt, he fits well with any team.


But puttin morant on dis team instead of brunson makes us a way better team and closer to da ultimate goal

 

[seemorecizzy]

Literally had a game less than a week ago where KD & Booker were playing and Brunson was CLEARLY the best player on the floor
Had KD so he was calling him a future HoF after the game
I will stand no Brunson slander

fam it was a regular season game lol
we aint beatin phx in a 7 game series

 

[seemorecizzy]

it says a lot that no one thinks the easiest solution to all this Randle showing up in the playoffs is a viable solution. It’s the lack of faith in him that really caps the Knicks ceiling.

Randle isnt a playoff performer. Those zones and da increase in defensive intensity is too much for him.

 

[firemanBk]

fam it was a regular season game lol
we aint beatin phx in a 7 game series

I don't agree but then again I don't think the Suns are a particularly good team