murksiderock
Superstar
This is going along with the current Kyrie thread. And this is pretty simple to me...
Guys who showed they could win league MVP or win a championship as a team's best player, are not real #2's. There isn't a single MVP winner in NBA history, not one, who wasnt the best player on his team, the year he won MVP...
2s have been MVP finalists historically on stacked teams, but not a single 2 has ever won league MVP. It doesn't happen. So if you're asking if ______ is a #2, if he ever even once won a league MVP, he's a #1...
If you're asking if ______ is a 2 but he was the best player on a championship team, he's a 1. All 1's aren't created equal; for instance if Tatum wins this title there isn't a soul alive who thinks he's a better player, historically or present, than Jokic. But he's a 1, so if a guy was ever the best player on a title team, he's a 1...
There are plenty of All-Timers who won championships as 2s, 3s, or role players. If that same guy won a championship as a 1, he's not a real 2. If that same guy won an MVP, he's not a real 2. He's a 1 who won a title(s) as a 2 either BEFORE he developed into a 1, or AFTER he was no longer good enough to be the best player on a championship team...
Here's a list of some All-Timers who won championships as 1s and/or MVPs, but also have titles as 2s or lesser, on their resume:
•Kareem (won 3 of 6 rings as a 1, but 3 that he wasn't the best player)
•Magic (2 of 5, not the 1)
•Kobe (3 of 5, not the 1)
•Russell (3 of 11, not the 1)
•Duncan (1 of 5, not the 1)
•Shaq (1 of 4, not the 1)
•Oscar (#2 on his only ring but he's a league MVP, he's not a true #2)
•Steph (2 of 4, not the 1)
•Dr J (#2 on only championship, but he's a league MVP, not a true #2)
•Robinson (#2 and less on both rings, but he's a league MVP, not a true #2)
I could keep going because there are others. So that category is kind of its own space, like "greatest players who were 1s but also won big in lesser roles"...
Ultimately, a real #2 is a guy who:
•he also is not a league MVP
•a guy who can't lead a championship run as a #1
As examples, league history is full of guys who are 2s, but in the context of, "who are the greatest 2s of all time" like 1s, these guys also need a title to their name, and often multiple rings. But, they aren't capable of being the best player on a champion, they aren't capable of being an MVP...
This is why, despite assertions that Kyrie is a "1b" or some other flimsy ass term, he's very clearly a #2. We're 13 years in with him, we know who he is. And it's why another ring could catapult him into the convo of GOAT #2's because he's excelled in this role...
He unequivocally did not excel as a 1. The few years he was a 1, he was always a 2 masquerading as a 1----->and to be clear league history is full of those dudes too...
Brad Beal was the best player in Washington for years. He's not a real #1, we all know it. He was playing the part because the team sucked. NBA history is full of those guys too!
Guys who showed they could win league MVP or win a championship as a team's best player, are not real #2's. There isn't a single MVP winner in NBA history, not one, who wasnt the best player on his team, the year he won MVP...
2s have been MVP finalists historically on stacked teams, but not a single 2 has ever won league MVP. It doesn't happen. So if you're asking if ______ is a #2, if he ever even once won a league MVP, he's a #1...
If you're asking if ______ is a 2 but he was the best player on a championship team, he's a 1. All 1's aren't created equal; for instance if Tatum wins this title there isn't a soul alive who thinks he's a better player, historically or present, than Jokic. But he's a 1, so if a guy was ever the best player on a title team, he's a 1...
There are plenty of All-Timers who won championships as 2s, 3s, or role players. If that same guy won a championship as a 1, he's not a real 2. If that same guy won an MVP, he's not a real 2. He's a 1 who won a title(s) as a 2 either BEFORE he developed into a 1, or AFTER he was no longer good enough to be the best player on a championship team...
Here's a list of some All-Timers who won championships as 1s and/or MVPs, but also have titles as 2s or lesser, on their resume:
•Kareem (won 3 of 6 rings as a 1, but 3 that he wasn't the best player)
•Magic (2 of 5, not the 1)
•Kobe (3 of 5, not the 1)
•Russell (3 of 11, not the 1)
•Duncan (1 of 5, not the 1)
•Shaq (1 of 4, not the 1)
•Oscar (#2 on his only ring but he's a league MVP, he's not a true #2)
•Steph (2 of 4, not the 1)
•Dr J (#2 on only championship, but he's a league MVP, not a true #2)
•Robinson (#2 and less on both rings, but he's a league MVP, not a true #2)
I could keep going because there are others. So that category is kind of its own space, like "greatest players who were 1s but also won big in lesser roles"...
Ultimately, a real #2 is a guy who:
•he also is not a league MVP
•a guy who can't lead a championship run as a #1
As examples, league history is full of guys who are 2s, but in the context of, "who are the greatest 2s of all time" like 1s, these guys also need a title to their name, and often multiple rings. But, they aren't capable of being the best player on a champion, they aren't capable of being an MVP...
This is why, despite assertions that Kyrie is a "1b" or some other flimsy ass term, he's very clearly a #2. We're 13 years in with him, we know who he is. And it's why another ring could catapult him into the convo of GOAT #2's because he's excelled in this role...
He unequivocally did not excel as a 1. The few years he was a 1, he was always a 2 masquerading as a 1----->and to be clear league history is full of those dudes too...
Brad Beal was the best player in Washington for years. He's not a real #1, we all know it. He was playing the part because the team sucked. NBA history is full of those guys too!
he was clearly role player, Paxson status on Miami. But yeah I always forget that title for him...
all you do is type essays you weren’t around
