Cormega: 'I Just Want To Be A Soldier For My Culture' (1 Hr Interview w/NPR)
Excellent, thanks bro.
Transcript of the interview:
20 years ago, Nas mentioned his friend Cormega on a song called "One Love," which was composed as a letter to someone in prison: "Night time is more trife than ever / What up with Cormega? Did you see him? Are y'all together? / If so then hold the fort down, represent to the fullest / Say what's up to Herb, Ice and Bullet." Those four bars inked Cormega's street credibility and forever tied him, for better and worse, to the crown prince of hip-hop. He spoke toMicrophone Check cohosts Ali Shaheed Muhammad and Frannie Kelley about the career and life he's made beyond them.
ALI SHAHEED MUHAMMAD: What up?
CORMEGA: What's good, brother?
MUHAMMAD: What's good, man?
CORMEGA: Just chillin'. Happy to be here.
MUHAMMAD: We're so happy to have you here. You legendary, man.
CORMEGA: I hate that — I think that word is overrated, especially in the presence of a brother like you.
FRANNIE KELLEY: That's fair. That's fair.
MUHAMMAD: I understand why you say that, but you gotta give it up. And for someone to have been doing what you doing for the amount of time, you know, skillfully, artfully, it applies — unless you've got another word to share with me.
CORMEGA: Ironically — I've been saying this in every interview, when people have been calling me legendary lately — or a legend — I really don't feel I deserve it. I would rather be called a veteran.
MUHAMMAD: A veteran.
KELLEY: I like that.
CORMEGA: I'd rather be called a veteran, because I don't think — I think that I've endured and I've showed consistency and everything, but there's — I don't see myself the way I see you guys. Like I don't see myself in the same vein as a Tribe or as a Eric B. and Rakim or PE. Those guys are legends, so if I consider y'all legends I don't — I honestly, humbly, don't think I belong in that sentence.
MUHAMMAD: Yeah, OK. I'll take the humble road, you know, that you trying to give and go down right now but, yo. I'm saying it, because you've done a lot for the art form and whether there's certain accolades given from certain sources or whatever, or not, it doesn't matter. I think your dedication and the passion you have and your art is a lot. And it's a lot that people can benefit from, and there's a lot time placed into it. You can't be around for a quarter of a century doing something as a professional and not be a master at it or considered to be a legend. So. You say veteran, we'll ride with that, but I'll say you're legendary and we're happy to have you here, man.
CORMEGA: I appreciate that.
KELLEY: I would say, as a fan, you loom large in my understanding of hip-hop. And I get the deference to Tribe and all them, but in some ways, your name never left people's minds — partly because it's a really good name, and partly because your sensibility has stayed intact. Although, we were just talking, this new album does feel like a departure for you in some ways. Do you hear it like that or no?
CORMEGA: I think the new album — I think I try to show growth, and I think my content is different. I think as artists — one of the most important things about artists is the sincerity and, as you would know, the not being afraid to express ourselves. And I didn't want to be redundant. I don't want to be — first of all, I don't live the life that I lived previously. I don't live in Queensbridge, I don't hustle, I'm not in the street life, you know. As you see, I'm with my kids right now.
A lot of awakenings have happened in my life and I just wanted my music to reflect that, because at this point in my career, everything that I do now is for legacy — it's really not about the money. A lot of people do it for the money, but I could get a job and get money, or do other things, but right now it's about legacy. It's like, to be mentioned amongst the greats but feel that I deserve there, like I deserve to be mentioned. So that's what this album is about. I just try to show growth and I just really think it was necessary in this time because our genre — when I say genre, our genre, I'm talking about lyricism and real conscious hip-hop or the skills — that hip-hop seems like it's under attack or they trying to, like, push it out. I felt like this album was very necessary and I just want to be a soldier for my culture.
YouTube
KELLEY: Yeah, especially on "Industry," that track.
CORMEGA: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
KELLEY: So who is attacking?
CORMEGA: I don't know who it is. I don't know if it's the media. I don't know if it's — I think greed. I think greed has something to do with it. But sometimes it's deeper than what we see it as. Sometimes it might be government that's pulling strings and — because when you look at the landscape of rap and you look at the people that was creative and innovative and saying stuff that could uplift the minorities or the poorer areas, those people have all been silenced — their voices have been silenced. So they have to speak in other ways. So I don't know what's that but I do know greed has played a symbolic impact in the demise of our culture.
Because it got to a point where there was new artists that would come to me for advice like, "How do I get on the mixtape? Such and such wants such and such thousand to get on the mixtape. I don't know how to get on the mixtapes." And so we had stuff like that, and then you have the certain radio guys, they want to get paid for your songs to get played. And then you got executives in the companies, they don't look at the creative side of it, they look at the business aspect, which — you can't knock them because it's an investment. But it's not that serious of an investment so when you think about it, it's like, if you make a creative masterpiece, especially during the '90s, not — late '90s is what really killed rap because if you made an incredible album during that time but it didn't go platinum, it was deemed as a failure.
It got to a point where gold was looked at as underachieving, and that's when it all went wrong. Because when artists was first doing it, you could go gold, you could sell 350,000 albums and have a successful career back in the day. People were content with making music that everybody could enjoy. It got to a point where people were making embarrassing music, like making fools of themselves, but making so much money that if you even — we from the era when if you was wack, you was wack — we didn't care if you was rich or what you had. And then it became to the point where wack dudes were starting to get pushed into the limelight, and if you say something about their wackness, then you become — you're a hater. So the word hater had to become a shield. And then it all went downhill from there. It's greed. One of the biggest things that hurt our culture was greed.
KELLEY: So you're saying to go platinum, basically, you have to cross over in some way.
CORMEGA: Definitely.
KELLEY: And so once that becomes the standard, then everybody has to make records for the mainstream.
CORMEGA: Definitely. It depends on what you want to do as an artist, because some artists don't get it. There's some artists that are independent that are living way — that are living well beyond their means, that are living well beyond people's expectations. You got brothers like Tech N9ne and E-40 who have more money than a lot of guys that have gone platinum on majors. It comes a time when you just gotta have a — it depends on how much integrity you have as a person, because the industry is a piggyback thing.
Like if they see — 50 Cent's success is a perfect example. When 50 Cent blew up, all the sudden it became like a — back in the day the mandate was "be good." If you was nice on the mic, you had a chance. When 50 Cent blew up, labels started pushing artists to work out, like everybody had to get diesel and stuff like that. Or like when Foxy Brown and Kim — their success was crazy for women, because after that all the sistas that was positive in that, you never heard them. I've literally heard people at labels say, "Oh, we gotta get her a ass," talking about other girls or you know, "You gotta do this." Or, "Look sexy." It became that, instead of the art. The industry is just incredible.
MUHAMMAD: You're saying that this album, you're more focused on legacy. There's something that's definitely, apparently, different, but I think there's a fiber of similarity in terms of like your drive, I think, from your previous albums. It always seemed like there was a sense of teaching, but, you know, not in a preachy way. I think it comes across like, "Yo, this is the life." You know, "This is what I'm dealing with, and this is how I'm putting it out there." And it was also, you know, said with a certain amount of integrity for yourself, who you are as a man, having honor and things of that nature. So it feels like this record has that same spirit, but it's refined from a different type of experience
It's interesting that you get to a song like "Industry" and the way you present it now, versus maybe some of your other experiences in the music industry and how it came across. First of all, I celebrate you for it, because we need to hear it right now in this climate and what's going on musically. But often people say that rap game — they use the term the rap game as synonymous with the drug game. And some of your music sort of articulates that. But I think with "Industry," you touched on something that's — it's the life of the artist — I think the way you broke it down, to me, reflects how governments play with other governments, and how our lives are not valued. You know, how people start wars to make money. And you broke that down — not speaking about wars but the industry and the relationship for the artist in terms of the record companies. I think that was pretty bold and dope.
CORMEGA: It definitely was. It definitely was a huge risk.
KELLEY: Yeah, can you talk about that a little bit? You knew it was risky and you — I mean, how much do you care about that?
CORMEGA: There's a lot of risk on this album. I knew "Industry" was a risk but I knew — when you a artist and you trying to send a message, you don't want to sound preachy, as he said, because sometimes people don't want to hear that. They just want to be entertained, or they want to hear what they want to hear. But one of the things that I'm able to — one of the things that benefits me as an artist is what they call street credibility, or whatever. My reputation from the street is authentic, and everybody knows that.
MUHAMMAD: That's why I say you legend man.
CORMEGA: I don't even — I don't even try to glorify it either. So if I'm talking, street dudes will listen — or the younger guys will listen. One of the most important things that I did was take responsibility as a man, and as an artist, because hip-hop in itself — a lot of things indoctrinate. Hip-hop is a thing that indoctrinates. People want to be like it and people want to be like the people that they admire. I've met dozens of people that have my lyrics tattooed on them, which blew my mind. If you look on Twitter right now there's a guy on there talking about, "I'ma send you the picture of a tatt." Today. Like, that's how many —
KELLEY: That's bananas.
CORMEGA: When I started seeing the impact that I had on people — people know that I came from jail. People knew that, so I didn't have to sing about it or brag about it in songs. And it's nothing to brag about. Jail is for suckers.
KELLEY: Well, also cause Nas talked about you being in jail on his song.
CORMEGA: Exactly. "One Love" let the world — exactly. So me coming home from jail and making it in the music industry, that was a ray of hope for a lot of convicts. Because when you're in jail, you're taught that you're a convict and you're reminded of it by the COs and by the system and you're taught your likelihood of making it is very low and that you're gonna be nothing. So when people see me come home and get a record deal, that inspired a lot of people.
20 years ago, Nas mentioned his friend Cormega on a song called "One Love," which was composed as a letter to someone in prison: "Night time is more trife than ever / What up with Cormega? Did you see him? Are y'all together? / If so then hold the fort down, represent to the fullest / Say what's up to Herb, Ice and Bullet." Those four bars inked Cormega's street credibility and forever tied him, for better and worse, to the crown prince of hip-hop. He spoke toMicrophone Check cohosts Ali Shaheed Muhammad and Frannie Kelley about the career and life he's made beyond them.
ALI SHAHEED MUHAMMAD: What up?
CORMEGA: What's good, brother?
MUHAMMAD: What's good, man?
CORMEGA: Just chillin'. Happy to be here.
MUHAMMAD: We're so happy to have you here. You legendary, man.
CORMEGA: I hate that — I think that word is overrated, especially in the presence of a brother like you.
FRANNIE KELLEY: That's fair. That's fair.
MUHAMMAD: I understand why you say that, but you gotta give it up. And for someone to have been doing what you doing for the amount of time, you know, skillfully, artfully, it applies — unless you've got another word to share with me.
CORMEGA: Ironically — I've been saying this in every interview, when people have been calling me legendary lately — or a legend — I really don't feel I deserve it. I would rather be called a veteran.
MUHAMMAD: A veteran.
KELLEY: I like that.
CORMEGA: I'd rather be called a veteran, because I don't think — I think that I've endured and I've showed consistency and everything, but there's — I don't see myself the way I see you guys. Like I don't see myself in the same vein as a Tribe or as a Eric B. and Rakim or PE. Those guys are legends, so if I consider y'all legends I don't — I honestly, humbly, don't think I belong in that sentence.
MUHAMMAD: Yeah, OK. I'll take the humble road, you know, that you trying to give and go down right now but, yo. I'm saying it, because you've done a lot for the art form and whether there's certain accolades given from certain sources or whatever, or not, it doesn't matter. I think your dedication and the passion you have and your art is a lot. And it's a lot that people can benefit from, and there's a lot time placed into it. You can't be around for a quarter of a century doing something as a professional and not be a master at it or considered to be a legend. So. You say veteran, we'll ride with that, but I'll say you're legendary and we're happy to have you here, man.
CORMEGA: I appreciate that.
KELLEY: I would say, as a fan, you loom large in my understanding of hip-hop. And I get the deference to Tribe and all them, but in some ways, your name never left people's minds — partly because it's a really good name, and partly because your sensibility has stayed intact. Although, we were just talking, this new album does feel like a departure for you in some ways. Do you hear it like that or no?
CORMEGA: I think the new album — I think I try to show growth, and I think my content is different. I think as artists — one of the most important things about artists is the sincerity and, as you would know, the not being afraid to express ourselves. And I didn't want to be redundant. I don't want to be — first of all, I don't live the life that I lived previously. I don't live in Queensbridge, I don't hustle, I'm not in the street life, you know. As you see, I'm with my kids right now.
A lot of awakenings have happened in my life and I just wanted my music to reflect that, because at this point in my career, everything that I do now is for legacy — it's really not about the money. A lot of people do it for the money, but I could get a job and get money, or do other things, but right now it's about legacy. It's like, to be mentioned amongst the greats but feel that I deserve there, like I deserve to be mentioned. So that's what this album is about. I just try to show growth and I just really think it was necessary in this time because our genre — when I say genre, our genre, I'm talking about lyricism and real conscious hip-hop or the skills — that hip-hop seems like it's under attack or they trying to, like, push it out. I felt like this album was very necessary and I just want to be a soldier for my culture.
YouTube
KELLEY: Yeah, especially on "Industry," that track.
CORMEGA: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
KELLEY: So who is attacking?
CORMEGA: I don't know who it is. I don't know if it's the media. I don't know if it's — I think greed. I think greed has something to do with it. But sometimes it's deeper than what we see it as. Sometimes it might be government that's pulling strings and — because when you look at the landscape of rap and you look at the people that was creative and innovative and saying stuff that could uplift the minorities or the poorer areas, those people have all been silenced — their voices have been silenced. So they have to speak in other ways. So I don't know what's that but I do know greed has played a symbolic impact in the demise of our culture.
Because it got to a point where there was new artists that would come to me for advice like, "How do I get on the mixtape? Such and such wants such and such thousand to get on the mixtape. I don't know how to get on the mixtapes." And so we had stuff like that, and then you have the certain radio guys, they want to get paid for your songs to get played. And then you got executives in the companies, they don't look at the creative side of it, they look at the business aspect, which — you can't knock them because it's an investment. But it's not that serious of an investment so when you think about it, it's like, if you make a creative masterpiece, especially during the '90s, not — late '90s is what really killed rap because if you made an incredible album during that time but it didn't go platinum, it was deemed as a failure.
It got to a point where gold was looked at as underachieving, and that's when it all went wrong. Because when artists was first doing it, you could go gold, you could sell 350,000 albums and have a successful career back in the day. People were content with making music that everybody could enjoy. It got to a point where people were making embarrassing music, like making fools of themselves, but making so much money that if you even — we from the era when if you was wack, you was wack — we didn't care if you was rich or what you had. And then it became to the point where wack dudes were starting to get pushed into the limelight, and if you say something about their wackness, then you become — you're a hater. So the word hater had to become a shield. And then it all went downhill from there. It's greed. One of the biggest things that hurt our culture was greed.
KELLEY: So you're saying to go platinum, basically, you have to cross over in some way.
CORMEGA: Definitely.
KELLEY: And so once that becomes the standard, then everybody has to make records for the mainstream.
CORMEGA: Definitely. It depends on what you want to do as an artist, because some artists don't get it. There's some artists that are independent that are living way — that are living well beyond their means, that are living well beyond people's expectations. You got brothers like Tech N9ne and E-40 who have more money than a lot of guys that have gone platinum on majors. It comes a time when you just gotta have a — it depends on how much integrity you have as a person, because the industry is a piggyback thing.
Like if they see — 50 Cent's success is a perfect example. When 50 Cent blew up, all the sudden it became like a — back in the day the mandate was "be good." If you was nice on the mic, you had a chance. When 50 Cent blew up, labels started pushing artists to work out, like everybody had to get diesel and stuff like that. Or like when Foxy Brown and Kim — their success was crazy for women, because after that all the sistas that was positive in that, you never heard them. I've literally heard people at labels say, "Oh, we gotta get her a ass," talking about other girls or you know, "You gotta do this." Or, "Look sexy." It became that, instead of the art. The industry is just incredible.
MUHAMMAD: You're saying that this album, you're more focused on legacy. There's something that's definitely, apparently, different, but I think there's a fiber of similarity in terms of like your drive, I think, from your previous albums. It always seemed like there was a sense of teaching, but, you know, not in a preachy way. I think it comes across like, "Yo, this is the life." You know, "This is what I'm dealing with, and this is how I'm putting it out there." And it was also, you know, said with a certain amount of integrity for yourself, who you are as a man, having honor and things of that nature. So it feels like this record has that same spirit, but it's refined from a different type of experience
It's interesting that you get to a song like "Industry" and the way you present it now, versus maybe some of your other experiences in the music industry and how it came across. First of all, I celebrate you for it, because we need to hear it right now in this climate and what's going on musically. But often people say that rap game — they use the term the rap game as synonymous with the drug game. And some of your music sort of articulates that. But I think with "Industry," you touched on something that's — it's the life of the artist — I think the way you broke it down, to me, reflects how governments play with other governments, and how our lives are not valued. You know, how people start wars to make money. And you broke that down — not speaking about wars but the industry and the relationship for the artist in terms of the record companies. I think that was pretty bold and dope.
CORMEGA: It definitely was. It definitely was a huge risk.
KELLEY: Yeah, can you talk about that a little bit? You knew it was risky and you — I mean, how much do you care about that?
CORMEGA: There's a lot of risk on this album. I knew "Industry" was a risk but I knew — when you a artist and you trying to send a message, you don't want to sound preachy, as he said, because sometimes people don't want to hear that. They just want to be entertained, or they want to hear what they want to hear. But one of the things that I'm able to — one of the things that benefits me as an artist is what they call street credibility, or whatever. My reputation from the street is authentic, and everybody knows that.
MUHAMMAD: That's why I say you legend man.
CORMEGA: I don't even — I don't even try to glorify it either. So if I'm talking, street dudes will listen — or the younger guys will listen. One of the most important things that I did was take responsibility as a man, and as an artist, because hip-hop in itself — a lot of things indoctrinate. Hip-hop is a thing that indoctrinates. People want to be like it and people want to be like the people that they admire. I've met dozens of people that have my lyrics tattooed on them, which blew my mind. If you look on Twitter right now there's a guy on there talking about, "I'ma send you the picture of a tatt." Today. Like, that's how many —
KELLEY: That's bananas.
CORMEGA: When I started seeing the impact that I had on people — people know that I came from jail. People knew that, so I didn't have to sing about it or brag about it in songs. And it's nothing to brag about. Jail is for suckers.
KELLEY: Well, also cause Nas talked about you being in jail on his song.
CORMEGA: Exactly. "One Love" let the world — exactly. So me coming home from jail and making it in the music industry, that was a ray of hope for a lot of convicts. Because when you're in jail, you're taught that you're a convict and you're reminded of it by the COs and by the system and you're taught your likelihood of making it is very low and that you're gonna be nothing. So when people see me come home and get a record deal, that inspired a lot of people.
I wanted to inspire people in other ways. And I know little dudes that wanted to be like me. So when I started making albums, I was telling people about the pitfalls of the street rather than just glorifying it. Now people respect me for what I've done in the independent game and in the industry. So it's like I'm doing the same thing I did in the streets — I drop jewels, but now I'm trying to navigate you through the industry instead of navigating you through the streets.
The song "Industry" was important to me because I get tired of the exploitation of our music, and especially of the artist. When you look at the rap industry, there's a lot of stories that don't have happy endings. And there's people that do little to nothing that thrive the most. There's people that literally got in the industry because they was cool with somebody and cause they brown nose the right people — cause they was in the right circle — and they became executives. Whereas, you have a person like Large Professor. Large Professor never had a job as an A&R. That's a crime.
KELLEY: Yeah.
CORMEGA: Think about it. His album — Breaking Atoms was groundbreaking. His influence on producers is — he introduced the game to Nas. He's done so much that any label that really cares would have gave him a shot as an A&R.
MUHAMMAD: Right.
CORMEGA: A lot of my heroes don't get the credit they deserve, and it started bothering me. And I just wanted to speak, and I wanted people to stop selling the illusion — even with the independent game, you could get jerked. You got labels like Koch that'll tell people, "Oh yeah, you get 60/40." You don't get 60/40. You don't get 60/40; it's not 60/40. All is not fair, so I wanted to be the one on a song like "Industry" to express the truths to artists. That's why I say, "Beef DVDs on BET so every artist who's on it was beefing for free," you know. If you listen to that song — and I made sure I said no disrespect intended. "I know he got beats," that's what I said about QD3. And everything I've said makes sense. There's no animosity or vengeance in my words.
It's self-evident, so I just want to make self-evident music. I took that risk. And at the end of the day, you know why I was able to take that risk? Because what could happen? I've already been blacklisted before. I already said freaking — and left the majors and started — I made a lane for myself. You can't blacklist me independently, or you can't blacklist me to the fans. I'm gonna always find a way. So I'm willing to take the risk, you know. That's just one of the risks that I took on the album.
KELLEY: I liked your mention of shareholders on that song also, cause that kind of gets at what you're really up against. If a corporation is — the law is that the shareholders have to profit, then how do we change what they value?
CORMEGA: Exactly. One of the biggest misconceptions — one of the big things that really bothered me about the industry, period, is, often in life when we see things aren't as equal as they should be or fair as they should be, we often try to — we often fight for change or for regulation, etc., etc. It bothers me to this day that record companies make at least, what, $10 off every record? Or maybe eight, if it's discounted. You make so much money off a record but an artist gets less than — not even a dollar, not even a half of a dollar. If you get a half of a dollar, you got a good deal. The profit margin for the artist as opposed to the company is totally unfair.
Even at the end of the day when you've got artists like — a artist goes platinum and he's happy and they'll make sure there's pictures of him with his platinum plaque, but whose glory is that? You got a plaque; that's it. That plaque isn't worth any money. Every album that sells a million copies generates $10 million, close to $10 million. There's a lot of people we know that generated $10 million, and more, that we've seen on TV bankrupt or this or that. And they're not all reckless spending. There's a lot of inconsistencies in the industry so I just wanted to say freak it and stir up the hornet's nest.
KELLEY: So why do you — why keep making music? Why stay in this industry, then?
CORMEGA: Because I'm not in the industry, I'm on the outer-stry. I'm in – see, me making music independently the way I do it, I don't have to deal with — I deal with the indie companies I want or I deal with, I put my stuff out digital. I always find ways to do things my own way.
When I was on, back in the day, my first record deal was with Violator Records — rest in peace Chris Lighty — and that's where I learnt about the industry. I was on the shelf, you know what I'm saying. So during my time on the shelf, I did something that wasn't being done at that time. You could do the research. No artist was putting out mixtapes without no album. It wasn't heard of. You might see a Best of Biggie, but I made my first mixtape like 1997 probably, you know.
By the time we did Survival of the Illest tour, my mixtape was old. And people — when we did Survival of the Illest tour, I was scared to go. I mean, I'ma be honest, I was scared. Like we went to Detroit, Chicago and all those — I was scared to perform because I thought people was gonna boo me because they didn't know my music. I was like, "Nobody's gonna know this s—-." And then when we got there, I was one of the most popular acts that night and I was blown away. People was like, "We got your album," and I was like, "I don't got an album." They were showing me the mixtape! So that, after that, I started making more mixtapes. And then that became a trend. Very few people give me my credit for that, but it's the truth. So I found that lane: I made mixtapes before it was done.
And same thing, when I got off of Violator, I had a situation. I could have signed with TVT during the time when Lil Jon was there — that label was big. But my whole thing is this: when you dealing with corporations, you're dealing with schedules, etc., etc. I didn't feel like getting on a label — I wanted my album to come out soon. So I knew if I signed with them, I would have to be fit in to their schedule, etc., etc., and I was just on the shelf for four years and I didn't have waiting time. So I put out my album independently and I thrived. I was getting phone calls from Interscope and other people, you know. I just — I didn't want to go back after that. So I was like freak it, you know. I could sell 50,000 records and be more happy than somebody that's sold 850,000 records. So I was like this is it.
MUHAMMAD: Do you recommend for artists that are starting out that they go more of an independent route?
CORMEGA: If a artist is starting out, I think indie is good. I think it depends. See, if an artist is starting out — if a label's gonna make you Eminem, then go for it, you know what I'm saying, because it doesn't matter. He's so successful, his success is so gigantic, that he's his own entity now. So he could quit that and do his own thing now. So if they gonna blow you up, then go to major.
But if you build yourself – like, say you a new artist and then you start making your own mixtapes and you develop your own buzz and you're big and people are flooding to you, you could be successful without it. Like what's the guy name? Mac Miller — is that his name, Mac Miller? Majors was trying to holler at him, he's like, "Freak y'all!" He went indie and he's still good. So independent is definitely the route. It's a excellent route. I wouldn't recommend majors unless they're gonna substantially pay you or unless they want to do something that's groundbreaking and give you a fair deal. If they say, "Well, we're gonna go 50/50 with you," do it! Or even 60/40. 80/20 even 'cause 40 cents off a album is not cool. It's nearly impossible to make your money back.
And this is another thing. Any time somebody gives you a loan, it's recoupable — any loan that you get. Refinance a house, a car, any kind of — a loan from a bank, once you pay off, once that debt has been paid, you get the deed or you get the title. Once you get a record deal, once you repay that, you still don't get a fair part. There should be amendments.
The song "Industry" was important to me because I get tired of the exploitation of our music, and especially of the artist. When you look at the rap industry, there's a lot of stories that don't have happy endings. And there's people that do little to nothing that thrive the most. There's people that literally got in the industry because they was cool with somebody and cause they brown nose the right people — cause they was in the right circle — and they became executives. Whereas, you have a person like Large Professor. Large Professor never had a job as an A&R. That's a crime.
KELLEY: Yeah.
CORMEGA: Think about it. His album — Breaking Atoms was groundbreaking. His influence on producers is — he introduced the game to Nas. He's done so much that any label that really cares would have gave him a shot as an A&R.
MUHAMMAD: Right.
CORMEGA: A lot of my heroes don't get the credit they deserve, and it started bothering me. And I just wanted to speak, and I wanted people to stop selling the illusion — even with the independent game, you could get jerked. You got labels like Koch that'll tell people, "Oh yeah, you get 60/40." You don't get 60/40. You don't get 60/40; it's not 60/40. All is not fair, so I wanted to be the one on a song like "Industry" to express the truths to artists. That's why I say, "Beef DVDs on BET so every artist who's on it was beefing for free," you know. If you listen to that song — and I made sure I said no disrespect intended. "I know he got beats," that's what I said about QD3. And everything I've said makes sense. There's no animosity or vengeance in my words.
It's self-evident, so I just want to make self-evident music. I took that risk. And at the end of the day, you know why I was able to take that risk? Because what could happen? I've already been blacklisted before. I already said freaking — and left the majors and started — I made a lane for myself. You can't blacklist me independently, or you can't blacklist me to the fans. I'm gonna always find a way. So I'm willing to take the risk, you know. That's just one of the risks that I took on the album.
KELLEY: I liked your mention of shareholders on that song also, cause that kind of gets at what you're really up against. If a corporation is — the law is that the shareholders have to profit, then how do we change what they value?
CORMEGA: Exactly. One of the biggest misconceptions — one of the big things that really bothered me about the industry, period, is, often in life when we see things aren't as equal as they should be or fair as they should be, we often try to — we often fight for change or for regulation, etc., etc. It bothers me to this day that record companies make at least, what, $10 off every record? Or maybe eight, if it's discounted. You make so much money off a record but an artist gets less than — not even a dollar, not even a half of a dollar. If you get a half of a dollar, you got a good deal. The profit margin for the artist as opposed to the company is totally unfair.
Even at the end of the day when you've got artists like — a artist goes platinum and he's happy and they'll make sure there's pictures of him with his platinum plaque, but whose glory is that? You got a plaque; that's it. That plaque isn't worth any money. Every album that sells a million copies generates $10 million, close to $10 million. There's a lot of people we know that generated $10 million, and more, that we've seen on TV bankrupt or this or that. And they're not all reckless spending. There's a lot of inconsistencies in the industry so I just wanted to say freak it and stir up the hornet's nest.
KELLEY: So why do you — why keep making music? Why stay in this industry, then?
CORMEGA: Because I'm not in the industry, I'm on the outer-stry. I'm in – see, me making music independently the way I do it, I don't have to deal with — I deal with the indie companies I want or I deal with, I put my stuff out digital. I always find ways to do things my own way.
When I was on, back in the day, my first record deal was with Violator Records — rest in peace Chris Lighty — and that's where I learnt about the industry. I was on the shelf, you know what I'm saying. So during my time on the shelf, I did something that wasn't being done at that time. You could do the research. No artist was putting out mixtapes without no album. It wasn't heard of. You might see a Best of Biggie, but I made my first mixtape like 1997 probably, you know.
By the time we did Survival of the Illest tour, my mixtape was old. And people — when we did Survival of the Illest tour, I was scared to go. I mean, I'ma be honest, I was scared. Like we went to Detroit, Chicago and all those — I was scared to perform because I thought people was gonna boo me because they didn't know my music. I was like, "Nobody's gonna know this s—-." And then when we got there, I was one of the most popular acts that night and I was blown away. People was like, "We got your album," and I was like, "I don't got an album." They were showing me the mixtape! So that, after that, I started making more mixtapes. And then that became a trend. Very few people give me my credit for that, but it's the truth. So I found that lane: I made mixtapes before it was done.
And same thing, when I got off of Violator, I had a situation. I could have signed with TVT during the time when Lil Jon was there — that label was big. But my whole thing is this: when you dealing with corporations, you're dealing with schedules, etc., etc. I didn't feel like getting on a label — I wanted my album to come out soon. So I knew if I signed with them, I would have to be fit in to their schedule, etc., etc., and I was just on the shelf for four years and I didn't have waiting time. So I put out my album independently and I thrived. I was getting phone calls from Interscope and other people, you know. I just — I didn't want to go back after that. So I was like freak it, you know. I could sell 50,000 records and be more happy than somebody that's sold 850,000 records. So I was like this is it.
MUHAMMAD: Do you recommend for artists that are starting out that they go more of an independent route?
CORMEGA: If a artist is starting out, I think indie is good. I think it depends. See, if an artist is starting out — if a label's gonna make you Eminem, then go for it, you know what I'm saying, because it doesn't matter. He's so successful, his success is so gigantic, that he's his own entity now. So he could quit that and do his own thing now. So if they gonna blow you up, then go to major.
But if you build yourself – like, say you a new artist and then you start making your own mixtapes and you develop your own buzz and you're big and people are flooding to you, you could be successful without it. Like what's the guy name? Mac Miller — is that his name, Mac Miller? Majors was trying to holler at him, he's like, "Freak y'all!" He went indie and he's still good. So independent is definitely the route. It's a excellent route. I wouldn't recommend majors unless they're gonna substantially pay you or unless they want to do something that's groundbreaking and give you a fair deal. If they say, "Well, we're gonna go 50/50 with you," do it! Or even 60/40. 80/20 even 'cause 40 cents off a album is not cool. It's nearly impossible to make your money back.
And this is another thing. Any time somebody gives you a loan, it's recoupable — any loan that you get. Refinance a house, a car, any kind of — a loan from a bank, once you pay off, once that debt has been paid, you get the deed or you get the title. Once you get a record deal, once you repay that, you still don't get a fair part. There should be amendments.
subs....props btw.
This is very good.
Would be nice if Nas and Cormega reunite a bit more, and do some positive things.
He likes cookies lmao.
malbaker86
Gators
gonna listen 
Mega getting his just due?
prophecypro
Hollywood North
NPR having its own Hip Hop show with Ali Shaeed is a great look for the culture. I dont know how long its been on but I've seen it for the last couple of years and its a great look
done
Continuation..........
MUHAMMAD: Yeah, you don't own it.
CORMEGA: You don't own nothing. You don't even own your name.
MUHAMMAD: Yeah.
CORMEGA: They could drop you off a label — this is the thing that hurts me, too. I've known artists that, label really didn't care about them, they pushed them to the side or they maybe even had plans of dropping them, and then, unfortunately, maybe something happens and the artist dies. All of a sudden now, that label loves this artist again. Now this artist is making money. He's generating funds and his family's barely getting anything cause his cut was so small and then y'all was about to drop him. An artist gives his all and the artist die and they really have nothing to show for it. There's a lot of artists who die whose families are struggling right now. You would think the label would say, "Alright, let's give 'em —" you know, "Let's cut them a check." But they don't. So it's so many inconsistencies in the game that it's just baffling and that's why I just wanted to be sincere on this album.
KELLEY: Ali mentioned honor. On that track with Raekwon, "Honorable," when you say, "It's the streets that made me wise and honorable," can you explain sort of how that functions, how that happens, how you learned that and what that means to you?
CORMEGA: I mean, "the streets raised me to be wise" — I think the streets raised me to be observant. I can't say that the streets taught me everything educationally because I did respect reading, so I did, you know, read books and I did go to school. I did drop out, unfortunately, but I did — when I went jail, they put me in the box. I got into trouble, so I was in the box and the box is smaller than this room. A matter of fact, if the box is half the size of this room, you in a good box. So I was in the box and when you in the box, you don't have no TV, nothing. You're just in your room and they give you your food, but they give you books. So one of the first books that I read — the first book that I read in there besides the Bible or whatever — the first book that I read was The Autobiography of Malcolm X.
KELLEY: They gave you that book?
CORMEGA: Yeah, yeah. So that was like —
KELLEY: Seems counterproductive for them.
CORMEGA: Yeah, really. I mean, yeah. I think God gave me that book. I think that was a blessing, because when I got that book and I seen how he said he was illiterate, or pretty much illiterate, taught himself to read, in jail, and read constantly and ended up getting, you know, his academics. Obviously, he became intelligent — from his speeches. So he bettered himself from being in jail. He didn't use jail as the end of the road; he used it as the start of a new road. So after that, that motivated me. I started going to law library for my case, cause I was innocent for what I was in jail for. I started going to law library instead of going to the gym and all that stuff. And then I started take a G.E.D. course. Took my G.E.D. course. I passed my G.E.D. I got my G.E.D., then after that, I took college courses, you know.
So in that sense, the streets, the valleys — the pros and cons benefit each other. The negativity of me being in the streets enabled me to reach positivity by unfortunately going to jail, but jail opened my eyes and made me read and made me get my G.E.D., etc., etc. Cause if I was home, I wouldn't have did it. I didn't have time to. I was too busy trying to sell drugs and etc., etc., so the streets taught me that.
The streets taught me also loyalty, etc., etc., because sometimes you don't find out who your friends are until you're in a situation, or until they don't need you anymore. The streets wisened me so that's why I said that in the song.
But you know I think life, not just the streets — I say that in the song because it sounds good in the song, to be honest with you. But life has made me wiser. It's not just the streets. It's a lot of things. It's life, it's experience, it's belief in God, it's — all of that has made me wiser. I'm very observant and, you know, I just take it all in. I take it all in as a artist. I think artists are like sponges, man, and then what we squeeze out the sponge is our art. It's for people to appreciate, so I just hope people appreciate it.
MUHAMMAD: I appreciate it. It's interesting because Frannie asked you, you know, why keep doing it and I was wondering the same thing in terms of inspiration — this was before I had a chance to listen to the new album. I feel like your records have gotten better and better with each album, in terms of your content. Your style is pretty much always been consistent from day one — you remind me of Kool G Rap in certain aspects of your cadence and flow and attack and confidence of rhyming. But I feel like even sonically the albums have gotten stronger and stronger. But I had wondered what motivates you, and then I heard this new album and I was like, "Oh, yeah, life."
KELLEY: Got it.
MUHAMMAD: I don't know, you tell me what motivates you still after — how many albums is it? Is this your —
CORMEGA: This'll be the fifth real album. This'll be the fifth album and then I got a compilation,Legal Hustle, that's six and mixtapes so I would say it's like my sixth.
MUHAMMAD: So 25 years, or more, that many albums, what's your motivation?
CORMEGA: I don't — to be honest with you, the years that I was in the game, I feel like I underachieved. I'm hard on myself because in the '90s, I didn't put out no album, so I was just there. My first album came out in 2001. So that's another reason why I don't give myself the legend stamp. Because I feel like I should have did — I could have did more. Like, I'm mad at myself I took five years to make a new album.
But one of the things that I promised myself is that my daughter is gonna have her father in her life. I didn't want to — I know a lot of artists that's on the road all the time and — you know how it is. So I wanted to be a part of my kid's life. There's a sacrifice I made, and I hope she appreciates it when she gets older.
MUHAMMAD: Yeah, you don't own it.
CORMEGA: You don't own nothing. You don't even own your name.
MUHAMMAD: Yeah.
CORMEGA: They could drop you off a label — this is the thing that hurts me, too. I've known artists that, label really didn't care about them, they pushed them to the side or they maybe even had plans of dropping them, and then, unfortunately, maybe something happens and the artist dies. All of a sudden now, that label loves this artist again. Now this artist is making money. He's generating funds and his family's barely getting anything cause his cut was so small and then y'all was about to drop him. An artist gives his all and the artist die and they really have nothing to show for it. There's a lot of artists who die whose families are struggling right now. You would think the label would say, "Alright, let's give 'em —" you know, "Let's cut them a check." But they don't. So it's so many inconsistencies in the game that it's just baffling and that's why I just wanted to be sincere on this album.
KELLEY: Ali mentioned honor. On that track with Raekwon, "Honorable," when you say, "It's the streets that made me wise and honorable," can you explain sort of how that functions, how that happens, how you learned that and what that means to you?
CORMEGA: I mean, "the streets raised me to be wise" — I think the streets raised me to be observant. I can't say that the streets taught me everything educationally because I did respect reading, so I did, you know, read books and I did go to school. I did drop out, unfortunately, but I did — when I went jail, they put me in the box. I got into trouble, so I was in the box and the box is smaller than this room. A matter of fact, if the box is half the size of this room, you in a good box. So I was in the box and when you in the box, you don't have no TV, nothing. You're just in your room and they give you your food, but they give you books. So one of the first books that I read — the first book that I read in there besides the Bible or whatever — the first book that I read was The Autobiography of Malcolm X.
KELLEY: They gave you that book?
CORMEGA: Yeah, yeah. So that was like —
KELLEY: Seems counterproductive for them.
CORMEGA: Yeah, really. I mean, yeah. I think God gave me that book. I think that was a blessing, because when I got that book and I seen how he said he was illiterate, or pretty much illiterate, taught himself to read, in jail, and read constantly and ended up getting, you know, his academics. Obviously, he became intelligent — from his speeches. So he bettered himself from being in jail. He didn't use jail as the end of the road; he used it as the start of a new road. So after that, that motivated me. I started going to law library for my case, cause I was innocent for what I was in jail for. I started going to law library instead of going to the gym and all that stuff. And then I started take a G.E.D. course. Took my G.E.D. course. I passed my G.E.D. I got my G.E.D., then after that, I took college courses, you know.
So in that sense, the streets, the valleys — the pros and cons benefit each other. The negativity of me being in the streets enabled me to reach positivity by unfortunately going to jail, but jail opened my eyes and made me read and made me get my G.E.D., etc., etc. Cause if I was home, I wouldn't have did it. I didn't have time to. I was too busy trying to sell drugs and etc., etc., so the streets taught me that.
The streets taught me also loyalty, etc., etc., because sometimes you don't find out who your friends are until you're in a situation, or until they don't need you anymore. The streets wisened me so that's why I said that in the song.
But you know I think life, not just the streets — I say that in the song because it sounds good in the song, to be honest with you. But life has made me wiser. It's not just the streets. It's a lot of things. It's life, it's experience, it's belief in God, it's — all of that has made me wiser. I'm very observant and, you know, I just take it all in. I take it all in as a artist. I think artists are like sponges, man, and then what we squeeze out the sponge is our art. It's for people to appreciate, so I just hope people appreciate it.
MUHAMMAD: I appreciate it. It's interesting because Frannie asked you, you know, why keep doing it and I was wondering the same thing in terms of inspiration — this was before I had a chance to listen to the new album. I feel like your records have gotten better and better with each album, in terms of your content. Your style is pretty much always been consistent from day one — you remind me of Kool G Rap in certain aspects of your cadence and flow and attack and confidence of rhyming. But I feel like even sonically the albums have gotten stronger and stronger. But I had wondered what motivates you, and then I heard this new album and I was like, "Oh, yeah, life."
KELLEY: Got it.
MUHAMMAD: I don't know, you tell me what motivates you still after — how many albums is it? Is this your —
CORMEGA: This'll be the fifth real album. This'll be the fifth album and then I got a compilation,Legal Hustle, that's six and mixtapes so I would say it's like my sixth.
MUHAMMAD: So 25 years, or more, that many albums, what's your motivation?
CORMEGA: I don't — to be honest with you, the years that I was in the game, I feel like I underachieved. I'm hard on myself because in the '90s, I didn't put out no album, so I was just there. My first album came out in 2001. So that's another reason why I don't give myself the legend stamp. Because I feel like I should have did — I could have did more. Like, I'm mad at myself I took five years to make a new album.
But one of the things that I promised myself is that my daughter is gonna have her father in her life. I didn't want to — I know a lot of artists that's on the road all the time and — you know how it is. So I wanted to be a part of my kid's life. There's a sacrifice I made, and I hope she appreciates it when she gets older.