Can we have a conversation about tariffs?

OsO

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This is inspired by the recent actions of our incoming president Donald Jintavious Trump.

In theory, I don't necessarily think it's a bad move. For decades America has become too reliant on importing goods and using cheap labor, and not doing enough to develop a strong manufacturing base.

The formula for state-building is as old as time. Every strong economy in world history has done it the same way. Businesses and the government collaborate to produce as many goods and services as you can on your own soil, and then get into strategic trade agreements with other countries to supplement what you don't produce well and what they excel at. And if local businesses want to import anything from other countries there's a tax, because ideally you should be getting what you need from your native country (if you can) because that further enhances the national economy.

In our current situation, the government should also be using its resources to help subsidize American businesses to offset the rising cost of production, so then it's not as difficult for businesses to pay employees higher wages because they're getting financial help from the government in the form of grants, tax breaks, subsidies, etc. And we obviously have the money because whenever we need to give Ukraine or Israel or whoever billions of dollars the money appears expeditiously.

The problem in today's climate is that you have the government working for and enabling corporations instead of regulating them. So I don't think this particular set of tariffs is going to play out well for the common person because the corporations will just pass on the increase in costs to the consumer with no penalty.

The United States has become addicted to low cost labor from other countries. And I understand that bringing manufacturing back in house will create a higher cost of doing business. However, a few things happen when you have a strong manufacturing base. 1) you can typically starts selling your goods to other countries thus increasing your revenue and boosting the national economy 2) the people now working in manufacturing are being paid more and thus able to afford the higher prices on goods and 3) in a true free trade economy, if one business starts getting greedy and tries to keep prices high but not compensate their employees, then another business will emerge and provide that same product or service at a more competitive price. That is the essence of free trade.

However, in our current climate, corporations use the government and the courts to crush smaller businesses, and government subsidies seem to only go to the top 5% of corporations, so as I mentioned, I don't think this current tariff situation will play out well for the foreseeable future.

But both in theory and in historical practice, tariffs can be used as an effective tool for economic development.

Thoughts?
 

WIA20XX

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We can't have a discussion on tariffs, or pretty much any other economic issue, because people don't understand economics, much less macro-economics, much less how the US fits into the global economy.

We can't talk about comparative advantage.
We can't talk about free trade.
We can't talk about business.
We can't talk about supply chain.
We can't talk about mercantilism.

We can't talk about how international trade is related to geopolitics.

China is struggling right now - and they have an export led manufacturing economy - the thing that folks want to see in America.


Germany - basically the China of Europe - is also an export led manufacturing economy


To have this discussion, cats would need to at least put in a semester's worth of work into understanding how the global economy works.

Instead it's all vibes.
 

Json

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I mean, the pandemic showed there is an argument for keeping some manufacturing in house or near, but that’s not what we’re talking about.

These Trump tariffs aren’t some strategic ploy. It’s the idea, like with abortion, you have to punish people to make them do what you want.

Ford and GM aren’t going to return to glory by making 1980 cars where air condition and a stereo were considered a luxury item. Minerals for electronic aren’t in abundance everywhere. At some point you will have to import and rely on positive relations with your neighbors. The reason China hasn’t just invaded Taiwan is the semiconductor issue.

Trump likes the weight of economic punishment America can wield. That’s why he admires Kim, Putin, and Hitler. None of them are know for their constructive international relations.
 

OsO

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We can't have a discussion on tariffs, or pretty much any other economic issue, because people don't understand economics, much less macro-economics, much less how the US fits into the global economy.

We can't talk about comparative advantage.
We can't talk about free trade.
We can't talk about business.
We can't talk about supply chain.
We can't talk about mercantilism.

We can't talk about how international trade is related to geopolitics.

China is struggling right now - and they have an export led manufacturing economy - the thing that folks want to see in America.


Germany - basically the China of Europe - is also an export led manufacturing economy


To have this discussion, cats would need to at least put in a semester's worth of work into understanding how the global economy works.

Instead it's all vibes.

China is on pace to be the #1 economy in the world in the near future, if they're not there already.

Germany has one of the best economies in Europe, struggling or not.

Actually let's do this...what major country do you think has a strong economy right now?
 

mastermind

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I don’t disagree with what you are saying @OsO , the problem is that is not Trump’s strategy.
 

WIA20XX

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China is on pace to be the #1 economy in the world in the near future, if they're not there already.

Germany has one of the best economies in Europe, struggling or not.

Actually let's do this...what major country do you think has a strong economy right now?

The US has a strong economy right now, the strongest actually.

This is not me "thinking" about it.
It's not an opinion.
I'm not spitballing or trying to win some random internet argument online.

It's facts.

The US has the largest economy in the world BY A WIDE MARGIN.

The US GDP is 40% greater than China's

America’s gross domestic product in 2022 was more than 40% greater than that of China, the world No. 2. Even more striking, U.S. GDP was over five times that of the next two largest economies, Japan and Germany.


There thousands of sources on this, if you don't like US news.

Higher Learning, much less The Locker Room, can have a "real" discussion about tariffs, or the global economy - because folks don't want to accept widely reported and accepted FACTS about the economy.

Folks here just don't know anything about the global economy.
 
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