Bush got Jews mad

Dusty Bake Activate

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http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/11/13/bushs-plans-irk-jewish-aides/

(CNN) - Of course Tevi Troy has heard the hubbub.

He knows full well that his onetime boss, former President George W. Bush, plans to speak Thursday at a Dallas fundraiser for the Messianic Jewish Bible Institute – a group dedicated to converting Jews to Christianity.

“I have yet to meet a Jewish person who hasn’t heard about this,” says Troy, who served as a Bush administration liaison to the Jewish community and was a former deputy secretary at the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services.

The topic of conversion can prompt a visceral reaction for Jews whose darker times have been marred by persecution, expulsion and forced conversions. Millions have died for and because of their faith.

“There’s good historical reason for the Jewish discomfort,” Troy says.

But before Troy, an Orthodox Jew, will tread into this controversy, he wants to discuss the Jewish value of hakarat hatov, or “recognizing the good.”

He says people should remember and appreciate that Bush was “a very good president to the Jewish people.”

He was a friend to Israel during the Second Intifada, Troy says. He was an outspoken opponent of anti-Semitism. And in the wake of the murder of American journalist Daniel Pearl by al Qaeda in Pakistan in 2002, when Jews felt like targets, Troy says Bush took on terrorism.

That said, when it comes to Bush’s decision to speak at the annual banquet for this messianic group, one that believes Jews like this former aide need to be saved, Troy admits, “I would be lying if I said I wasn’t disappointed.”

CNN tried to speak with five other former Bush administration liaisons to the Jewish community, but only two of those responded. Both suggested Troy could speak for them, too.

His words, though, are tempered. Others, such as Rabbi David Wolpe, who was dubbed America’s most influential rabbi by Newsweek in 2012, called Bush’s decision “infuriating.”

The Messianic Jewish Bible Institute is representative of a longstanding effort to convert Jews, one that dates back to Paul in the New Testament who said, in Romans 1:16, that the Gospel should be taken “to the Jew first.”

The institute's website features a menorah in its logo. Its chairman is listed as Rabbi Jonathan Bernis, a man who heads up another organization called Jewish Voice Ministries International, where an “Ask the Rabbi” feature includes an image of him wearing a yarmulke and Jewish prayer shawl.

CNN reached out to Bernis at Jewish Voice Ministries but was told by a spokeswoman that he was not allowed to comment on the upcoming fundraiser.

Then CNN asked where he had been ordained as a rabbi, and the spokeswoman hung up the phone.

We also called the Messianic Jewish Bible Institute, which pulled down from its website any references to Bush’s upcoming appearance soon after Mother Jones broke the story. An institute spokeswoman said there would be no comment.

A source close to Bush, who didn't want to be named, confirmed to CNN on Wednesday afternoon that the former president still plans to speak at Thursday’s banquet, where tickets reportedly range in price from $100 to $100,000.

The source also said that Bush addresses all sorts of groups, secular and religious of varying stripes. Bush tells stories from the White House and speaks about his love for America, which includes a commitment to religious freedom and tolerance, according to the source.

Had Bush’s onetime liaison to the Jewish community still been working with the former president or been asked, Troy said he certainly would have advised against such an appearance.

Troy says the problem is most people don’t understand why talk of converting Jews stirs up such strong feelings in the Jewish community.

“It dates back to a time when forced conversion was a serious issue, when the church was imbued with the power of state,” he says.

Troy points to the Spanish Inquisition as an example, explaining how under duress and torture, Jews had to convert to Christianity or face expulsion from Spain in 1492. Those who stayed and exhibited any shred of Jewish observance were persecuted.

The Messianic Jewish Bible Institute, founded in the mid-1990s, includes in its mission the goal to "educate Christians in their role to provoke the Jewish people to jealousy and thus save some of them."

The institute's statement of faith also says that those who are born Jewish and "place their faith in Messiah Yeshua," Jesus, "have not disowned or separated themselves from their race and Judaic heritage, but remain sons and daughters of Israel."

Missionary outreach to Jews in America isn't new. It dates back to the 19th century. A Hungarian man who called himself a "rabbi" established a ministry in 1894 to target Jewish immigrants in Brooklyn, offering them assistance, education and New Testaments translated into Yiddish.

On the opposite coast in San Francisco in 1973, a Baptist minister - who was born Jewish - founded a proselytizing organization called Jews for Jesus. His small army has been knocking on doors and pounding the pavement ever since.

A less aggressive approach, preferred by others who might call themselves Messianic Jews or Hebrew Christians, has been the establishment of Messianic “synagogues” and organizations. They’re sponsored by Christians, and they incorporate Jewish symbols and modified Jewish rituals. They’re often led by leaders who call themselves rabbis, use Hebrew phrases and wear traditional Jewish accessories.

Critics cry false advertising, subterfuge and bemoan how such outfits, including the Messianic Jewish Bible Institute, which built its base in the former Soviet Union, often target Jews who don’t know better – what Rob Eshman of the Jewish Journal in Los Angeles called, “the low-hanging fruit of Jewish identity.”

While Messianic Jews believe it’s possible to be Jewish while believing Jesus is the Messiah, others say this makes as much sense as a vegetarian who believes in scarfing down steak.

The historical concern may have been rooted in forced conversions, but Troy knows that's not an issue today.

In fact, the group Bush will address - and others like it - don’t really worry him. He’s more concerned about a recent Pew study that showed how a growing number of American Jews don’t identify with any faith, let alone their own.

About a third of American Jews born after 2000 answered “none” when asked about their religious affiliation, the survey showed. Of everyone surveyed who was raised Jewish, according to the researchers, 6% now describe themselves as Christian - mostly as Catholics, Protestants or "just Christian."

Messianic Jews, Pew said, constitute a very small group. Meantime, though, the Pew survey also showed that 34% of those asked believe a person can be Jewish and believe Jesus was the messiah.

But the fundraiser in Dallas, even if it features the likes of a former U.S. president, isn’t what’s hurting American Jews, Troy says.

"Judaism," he says, "has other and bigger problems."
 

john goodman

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Ya I certainly think less of bush after this... Before I thought his evangelical religious views were just a gimmick for votes
 

Dusty Bake Activate

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Ya I certainly think less of bush after this... Before I thought his evangelical religious views were just a gimmick for votes
I didn't. He's true blue about it. Jesus saved him from being an alcoholic and a cokehead.

Rumsfeld and them used to send him Bible scriptures and try to relate it foreign policy to try and sway and motivate him.
 

dennis roadman

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This dude Troy reminds me of the guys Malcolm X was working with in the restaurant when they were listening to the fight

"Mr. Bush is good Christian folk, fuhhh shaaaame"

:stopitslime: he exploited the fukk outta the paranoia of Conservative jews
 

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I didn't. He's true blue about it. Jesus saved him from being an alcoholic and a cokehead.

Rumsfeld and them used to send him Bible scriptures and try to relate it foreign policy to try and sway and motivate him.
them jews probably the ones providing him with the coke.

they probably putting crack in barack's cigs.. that nicca barack needs to watch them niccas cause the day, if he'll ever, wake up and get his mind right them devils like emanuel he surrounds himself with will turn against him.
 

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:yeshrug:

I don't like bush or his views on anything really..... but I can at least respect him as a man. can't respect Obama acting like a p*ssy....


and to the op topic :salute:
 

88m3

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IRumsfeld and them used to send him Bible scriptures and try to relate it foreign policy to try and sway and motivate him.

I thought Bush had some off the cuff remarks about Israel or Jews. Maybe I'm thinking of Rumsfeld... regardless I doubt I'll ever see a bigger group of a$$holes in my lifetime.
 

Slystallion

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i can't see why someone who is Jewish would be mad at a Christian trying to create more Christians

thats like getting mad at Microsoft for trying to convert playstation fans into xbox fans
 

Type Username Here

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This dude Troy reminds me of the guys Malcolm X was working with in the restaurant when they were listening to the fight

"Mr. Bush is good Christian folk, fuhhh shaaaame"

:stopitslime: he exploited the fukk outta the paranoia of Conservative jews


The conservative Christian and conservative Jew relationship is very weird.

"Israel is our greatest ally!! We must protect them at all costs!! The Jews must be in Israel so our Lord can return and send them all to hell so we can all go to heaven!!!"
 

dennis roadman

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The conservative Christian and conservative Jew relationship is very weird.

"Israel is our greatest ally!! We must protect them at all costs!! The Jews must be in Israel so our Lord can return and send them all to hell so we can all go to heaven!!!"
it's both sides playing the other, waiting for just the right moment to pull the rug out from under their so-called ally
 

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it's both sides playing the other, waiting for just the right moment to pull the rug out from under their so-called ally

Funniest thing I read the past few days was the report that the Saudis were willing to let Israel use its airspace and runways to facilitate an attack on Iran if need be. It got out and the Saudis were like :whoa::whoa::whoa: "we hate Israel"

So you got this capitalist drive towards war with Iran, but mixed in there is a small dose of strict religious fundamentalism. The Evangelicals want Jews in Israel and for the Middle East to descend into chaos so Jesus can return. The Wahhabis want to keep Mecca/Medina from the hands of the traitorous Shiites. The Zionists want to hold and expand their land that was given to them directly by God. But it all comes down to the one true god, Lord Dollar.
 
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