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The World Wasn’t Ready for Body Double
“Sometimes the style of the day is not the right way to appraise something innovative,” Brian De Palma says now.
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Brian "the goat" De Palma is back. new interview with Vulture. quotes for days. says he's got one other film he's planning to make
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Vulture: When Body Double opened, it was not a success. Over the years, it’s become one of your signature movies, and a lot of us think it’s your best work. Why do you think it’s endured?
De Palma: Well, you never can tell with these things. You have to get over the emotional and financial catastrophe. I’ve done a lot of interviews about Phantom of the Paradise recently, and it’s the same thing. It wasn’t successful when it came out, and now, 50 years later, it’s considered a classic. You’re always judged by the style of the day, but sometimes the style of the day is not the right way to appraise something innovative. There’s something obviously enduring in the way it was done. I was always doing innovative things, always dancing on the edge, to some extent, and that upset a lot of people.
I think why my type of movies last so long is they’re very cinematic. Cinema kind of died with celluloid, because you don’t have the same cinematographers anymore. You don’t have film anymore. It is now completely dominated by the writers and showrunners, and the movies and shows are basically radio plays, full of people talking to each other. Plus they’re all shooting digitally, so it doesn’t look very interesting. That form of cinema went out with celluloid. That’s why I think people look fondly upon these movies, because they’re quite stunning visually, and you don’t see that anymore.
De Palma: Well, you never can tell with these things. You have to get over the emotional and financial catastrophe. I’ve done a lot of interviews about Phantom of the Paradise recently, and it’s the same thing. It wasn’t successful when it came out, and now, 50 years later, it’s considered a classic. You’re always judged by the style of the day, but sometimes the style of the day is not the right way to appraise something innovative. There’s something obviously enduring in the way it was done. I was always doing innovative things, always dancing on the edge, to some extent, and that upset a lot of people.
I think why my type of movies last so long is they’re very cinematic. Cinema kind of died with celluloid, because you don’t have the same cinematographers anymore. You don’t have film anymore. It is now completely dominated by the writers and showrunners, and the movies and shows are basically radio plays, full of people talking to each other. Plus they’re all shooting digitally, so it doesn’t look very interesting. That form of cinema went out with celluloid. That’s why I think people look fondly upon these movies, because they’re quite stunning visually, and you don’t see that anymore.
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Vulture: A lot of people will say that you can’t really make a movie like Body Double today. They might be right. And yet it’s more beloved than it’s ever been. That’s an interesting paradox.
De Palma: What I find interesting when you see contemporary people watch these movies is they’re shocked by the nudity. They go, “Oh my God.” I’m thinking, What, are we living in the Victorian Age here? You know, they have these things on YouTube where they have two people watching a movie and reacting as they watch it? I saw two people watching the opening of Carrie. I thought they were going to have a heart attack! I was like, What has happened to this next generation? They seem to have gotten very Victorian.
De Palma: What I find interesting when you see contemporary people watch these movies is they’re shocked by the nudity. They go, “Oh my God.” I’m thinking, What, are we living in the Victorian Age here? You know, they have these things on YouTube where they have two people watching a movie and reacting as they watch it? I saw two people watching the opening of Carrie. I thought they were going to have a heart attack! I was like, What has happened to this next generation? They seem to have gotten very Victorian.
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Vulture: You’ve noted that at the time you made Body Double, Columbia was owned by Coca-Cola. And they were worried about the film because corporations care so much about their public image. Nowadays, movie companies are all owned by publicly traded conglomerates — giant companies that can’t afford any kind of reputational risk. Hollywood was never known for being edgy, but it was edgier than it is now.
De Palma: Yeah, that’s even worse today. Because they’re owned by tech companies. Does anybody want to affect Apple with some wild, strange movie? Absolutely not. That’s why all that streaming stuff is so bland and boring. It was bad when we had the execs. We’d have to fight through executives, but some strange movies would still get made, because somebody went out on a limb. Not anymore.
De Palma: Yeah, that’s even worse today. Because they’re owned by tech companies. Does anybody want to affect Apple with some wild, strange movie? Absolutely not. That’s why all that streaming stuff is so bland and boring. It was bad when we had the execs. We’d have to fight through executives, but some strange movies would still get made, because somebody went out on a limb. Not anymore.
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Vulture: Speaking of corporations, did you see the movie Air last year, the Ben Affleck film?
De Palma: I watched a little of it. I got kind of bored with it.
Vulture: They used the music from Body Double in that film.
De Palma: What?!
Vulture: I don’t know if you got to that part.
De Palma: Oh, I don’t think I got to that.
Vulture: As you know, the movie is all about the creation of the Air Jordan Nike sneaker. When they actually reveal the shoe to Michael Jordan and his family, in the third act of the movie, it’s the first time we as viewers get to see the shoe. And they use the music from Body Double! They use the music that plays when the woman across the street is doing her naked masturbating window dance.
De Palma: Really?! I’ll have to check that out.
De Palma: I watched a little of it. I got kind of bored with it.
Vulture: They used the music from Body Double in that film.
De Palma: What?!
Vulture: I don’t know if you got to that part.
De Palma: Oh, I don’t think I got to that.
Vulture: As you know, the movie is all about the creation of the Air Jordan Nike sneaker. When they actually reveal the shoe to Michael Jordan and his family, in the third act of the movie, it’s the first time we as viewers get to see the shoe. And they use the music from Body Double! They use the music that plays when the woman across the street is doing her naked masturbating window dance.
De Palma: Really?! I’ll have to check that out.
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Vulture: So erotic thrillers, are they dead?
De Palma: Boy, I think so. I don’t know what’s going to change. Something new will emerge. But maybe it’ll have to come out of Europe, which still has an independent filmmaking hierarchy. But I don’t see it. As I said, I’m constantly looking for stuff to look at. It’s in the hands of the writers and the showrunners, who are being paid a lot of money by tech companies. This is not a good place for independent art to evolve.
De Palma: Boy, I think so. I don’t know what’s going to change. Something new will emerge. But maybe it’ll have to come out of Europe, which still has an independent filmmaking hierarchy. But I don’t see it. As I said, I’m constantly looking for stuff to look at. It’s in the hands of the writers and the showrunners, who are being paid a lot of money by tech companies. This is not a good place for independent art to evolve.
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Vulture: Are you planning to make another film?
De Palma: Yes, I have one other film I’m planning to make. And we’re in the process of trying to cast it. I can’t tell you what it is until it happens. Then I’ll be very happy to announce it.
De Palma: Yes, I have one other film I’m planning to make. And we’re in the process of trying to cast it. I can’t tell you what it is until it happens. Then I’ll be very happy to announce it.
