A Power Vacuum Is Killing the Euro Zone

ogc163

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AS problems mount in the euro zone, it’s increasingly evident that we’ve been witnessing an institutional failure of monumental proportions.
What is to be done about Greece? Simply keeping it in the euro zone won’t help much, even if it’s possible. The continuing crisis has sapped confidence in banks not only in Greece, but also in Spain, Italy, Portugal and Ireland, though to varying degrees. Unless there are explicit guarantees to these banks soon, the market will likely take a further turn for the worse.

An absence of guarantees could prompt a broader chain reaction of capital flight and bank collapses across several countries.

The basic problem is that many people won’t keep their euros in a Greek bank, and perhaps not in a Spanish bank, either, when those euros can be moved to Germany or some other haven.

Yet German citizens do not appear ready to guarantee Spanish banks or, by extension, the whole credit system of Spain and the other periphery nations. Guarantees of that scope are probably impossible and may also require constitutional changes in some nations.

We thus face the danger that the euro, the world’s No. 2 reserve currency, could implode. Such an event wouldn’t be just another depreciation or collapse of a currency peg; instead, it would mean that one of the world’s major economic units doesn’t work as currently constituted.

We are realizing just how much international economic order depends on the role of a dominant country — sometimes known as a hegemon — that sets clear rules and accepts some responsibility for the consequences. For historical reasons, Germany isn’t up to playing the role formerly held by Britain and, to some extent, still held today by the United States. (But when it comes to the euro zone, the United States is on the sidelines.)

THERE appears to be a power vacuum, and the implications are alarming. We may be entering a new world where international cooperative arrangements, in environmental areas as well as finance, are commonly recognized as impossible. If the core European nations cannot coordinate effectively, what can we expect in dealings with China, Russia and other countries that have less of a common background and understanding?

In the euro zone, we are seeing two refusals to cooperate: Germany won’t renew financial pledges to Greece without Greek compliance on previous agreements, and Greece doesn’t want Germany to control its national budget. Both seem reasonable positions, and maybe they are, but reasonable positions can apparently destroy an international agreement rather easily.

Is there a way out? To seek a binge of pro-growth government spending, in the hope of stimulating economies, is to assume what already stands in doubt. The crisis has reached a head partly because the market already lacks trust in the periphery governments to invest money for sustainable economic growth.

There is also talk of forming a true fiscal union, but that seems to be doubling down on a bad idea. If the euro zone cannot summon enough cooperation now, how is any union requiring tighter cooperation supposed to work? How would national budgets be set and approved? A credit collapse remains a real possibility.

Is it too late for monetary policy to make a difference? The other euro-zone nations might allow Greece to leave, while guaranteeing payments for food and fuel, both of which Greece imports, for a reasonable period. Higher price inflation might then depreciate the euro, limit the need for difficult downward wage adjustments, and help Spain and Italy improve their competitiveness. The inflation could come through central bank bond purchases from the troubled nations, thus easing their debt problems. That may be the only useful option still on the table.

But that’s also not easy. First, economically healthier nations may be reluctant to accept the inflation, which would represent a rather direct, continuing redistribution of wealth to the troubled debtor countries.

The second problem is that some of the banking systems in the periphery nations may be too broken for monetary policy to take hold. Imagine the European Central Bank trying to infuse new money and credit into Spain, while bank deposits move quickly to Germany, Switzerland and other safer places. Again, why would anyone want to keep money in the bank of a fiscally troubled nation? That loss of confidence will not be easily repaired.

Since December, the European Central Bank has lent more than a trillion euros to euro-zone banks, but that has bought no more than a few months of peace. It isn’t clear how much more can be done. It probably is about time to judge the euro zone as a failed idea — and rarely is it wise to double down on failed ideas.

What is most disturbing is that the euro-zone nations are democratic, protective of basic liberties, and have advanced intellectual and research communities. The final lesson of this debacle is that smart nations with noble motives can make very big mistakes. And that should concern us all.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/27/b...-zone-a-lethal-vacuum-economic-view.html?_r=1
 

Arrogance.

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I disagree very much with the idea that Germany can't be the economic leader for the Eurozone just based on historical reasons. Germany already is the economic leader for the Eurozone and as a result of propping up Greece they should be allowed to tell Greece how to spend the money. Greece doesn't even qualify for the Euro if it weren't for Goldman Sachs using every dirty accounting trick possible to make the books look better and an insistence from the members of the EU to get as many countries hooked up on the Euro, financial situations be damned. Austerity is a dirty word as well but what other viable solution is there to Greece's problem?
 

ogc163

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I disagree very much with the idea that Germany can't be the economic leader for the Eurozone just based on historical reasons. Germany already is the economic leader for the Eurozone and as a result of propping up Greece they should be allowed to tell Greece how to spend the money. Greece doesn't even qualify for the Euro if it weren't for Goldman Sachs using every dirty accounting trick possible to make the books look better and an insistence from the members of the EU to get as many countries hooked up on the Euro, financial situations be damned. Austerity is a dirty word as well but what other viable solution is there to Greece's problem?


Germany cannot be the leader on the scale necessary because of several reasons. The two most important ones being their financial sector is a complete mess to say the least and anti-German sentiment is too deep around the EU for them to get away with calling shots for an long period of time.

The austerity that has been tried has been piecemeal and coupled with tax increases and lax monetary policy, which has obviously been counterproductive. Because of the way the EMU is constructed I don't think the necessary austerity measures could ever be implemented/enforced anyway.

The only solution at this point is to disband the EMU.
 

Arrogance.

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Germany cannot be the leader on the scale necessary because of several reasons. The two most important ones being their financial sector is a complete mess to say the least and anti-German sentiment is too deep around the EU for them to get away with calling shots for an long period of time.

The austerity that has been tried has been piecemeal and coupled with tax increases and lax monetary policy, which has obviously been counterproductive. Because of the way the EMU is constructed I don't think the necessary austerity measures could ever be implemented/enforced anyway.

The only solution at this point is to disband the EMU.

All the scenarios I've read for when the Greece is kicked spell out economic doom for Greece for about 5-10 years with recovery based on cheaper tourism/exporting of goods. What would disbanding the EMU do, in theory?
 

ogc163

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All the scenarios I've read for when the Greece is kicked spell out economic doom for Greece for about 5-10 years with recovery based on cheaper tourism/exporting of goods. What would disbanding the EMU do, in theory?

It would allow for the countries to start with a clean slate. The creditors/Banks would be stiffed, but they are already screwed at this point so might as well cut the losses now. Savers would also be hurt, but they are already being hurt by way of low interest rates and debasement of currency because of lax monetary policy that will further wipe out their savings anyway.

Here is a interesting panel discussion on the Euro among other things...


[ame=http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xqq3uz_hugh-hendry-europe-is-a-fiction-01-01-05-2012_news]Hugh Hendry Europe is a fiction 01 01 05 2012 - Video Dailymotion[/ame]
 

Broke Wave

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Nice to see you made the flight over here ,friend.

Let me ask you this though.


Since you are a proponent of severe austerity due to your stringent market fundementalism, how does this failure of all the austerity programs in Europe affect your views on economics, knowing that the programs started by the European governments since 2009 are all programs that Friedman, Hazlitt, Von Mises would have all endorsed?
 

ogc163

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Nice to see you made the flight over here ,friend.

Let me ask you this though.


Since you are a proponent of severe austerity due to your stringent market fundementalism, how does this failure of all the austerity programs in Europe affect your views on economics, knowing that the programs started by the European governments since 2009 are all programs that Friedman, Hazlitt, Von Mises would have all endorsed?

Piecemeal austerity, increased money supply,bank bailouts, lowered interest rates, increased taxes is what Hazlitt and Mises would have endorsed?! :stopitslime::stopitslime:
 

Broke Wave

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Piecemeal austerity, increased money supply,bank bailouts, lowered interest rates, increased taxes is what Hazlitt and Mises would have endorsed?! :stopitslime::stopitslime:

increased taxes my ass, the only taxes that were "raised" are the exemptions for the middle class that were ended. no tax rates were "raised".


Piecemeal austerity is a funny way to put it friend, when wages are being slashed, pensions being cut, and the work force of the public sector and spending being reduced greatly as well.

If those two were alive in 2008 they would be among the chorus of those screaming BAIL OUTTT BAIL OUTT :laff:

I like how you didn't even oppose the idea that Friedman would be a proponent of the current economic structure, it's essentially based on his ideas :pachaha:
 

Dusty Bake Activate

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Piecemeal austerity, increased money supply,bank bailouts, lowered interest rates, increased taxes is what Hazlitt and Mises would have endorsed?! :stopitslime::stopitslime:

:stopitslime: How much in spending cuts would they need to make for them to not be "piecemeal" and what else should they have cut from their budgets?
 

ogc163

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increased taxes my ass, the only taxes that were "raised" are the exemptions for the middle class that were ended. no tax rates were "raised".


Piecemeal austerity is a funny way to put it friend, when wages are being slashed, pensions being cut, and the work force of the public sector and spending being reduced greatly as well.

If those two were alive in 2008 they would be among the chorus of those screaming BAIL OUTTT BAIL OUTT :laff:

I like how you didn't even oppose the idea that Friedman would be a proponent of the current economic structure, it's essentially based on his ideas :pachaha:

:rudy:So taxes have not been raised? Riiight...
Greece passes property tax increase in effort to avert default, secure bailout - The Washington Post

Tax rise hits Greece's restaurants | Video | Reuters.com

VAT to rise to 23% as Irish look to save ¿3.8bn through tax rises and spending cuts | Mail Online

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/16/w...increases-not-deep-reform.html?pagewanted=all

Italian Senate approves tax hikes amid public anger - CNN.com

:dry: What makes you think Hazlitt and Mises would have supported a bailout?

:rolleyes:I've mentioned Friedman's rationalizing bank bailouts and lax monetary policy during crisis's before, and pointing out that it was in the name of stability but still corporatism.
 

ogc163

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increased taxes my ass, the only taxes that were "raised" are the exemptions for the middle class that were ended. no tax rates were "raised".


Piecemeal austerity is a funny way to put it friend, when wages are being slashed, pensions being cut, and the work force of the public sector and spending being reduced greatly as well.

If those two were alive in 2008 they would be among the chorus of those screaming BAIL OUTTT BAIL OUTT :laff:

I like how you didn't even oppose the idea that Friedman would be a proponent of the current economic structure, it's essentially based on his ideas :pachaha:

:stopitslime: How much in spending cuts would they need to make for them to not be "piecemeal" and what else should they have cut from their budgets?

As I thought I made clear in the second post, because of how the EMU is constructed austerity would not work because of the difficulty in regards to enforcement/compliance. But even in the hypothetical situation in which the EMU had a consolidated fiscal/monetary union, because of the amount of over leveraging and exposure on the part of the major countries banks no realistic amount of austerity and production would be able to stabilize the system. I've said before that default/disbandment is the best option, I never co-signed austerity being the key as it relates to the Eurozone.
 
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