The great SOYLENT WHITE experiment (January 2014)

Joined
May 1, 2012
Messages
7,737
Reputation
2,725
Daps
24,023
Reppin
Des Moines, IA
:lupe:

After hearing about this so many times over the last year being genuinely curious to try it, I finally sent in a payment to get a week's supply in early 2014

How many of you have heard of SOYLENT?
https://campaign.soylent.me/soylent-free-your-body

http://blog.soylent.me/

This has been in the works for a while and has had a ton of support from private investors. I have seen it sporadically pop up in the news over the last year. The basic premise is creating a 100% liquid diet with a focus on nutritional completeness, which is what differs if from current liquid meals such as Ensure which are basically just calorie bombs loaded with sugar.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thesalt/20...beat-food-idea-investors-are-taking-seriously

http://www.fourhourworkweek.com/blog/2013/08/20/soylent/

A day's worth of Soylent costs $9 and it provides 2400 calories. I am concerned about the protein levels, it is currently formulated with 80g but apparently will be bumped up to 120g before release. And I think it is mostly soy-based protein, so I will probably be supplementing either with a half pound of chicken per day or a couple whey protein shakes depending on whether I want to drop solid food completely

I am your guinea pig Coli. Will post daily updates when the time comes :lupe:
 

Spliff

Godzilla got busy.
Joined
May 1, 2012
Messages
11,249
Reputation
2,108
Daps
36,644
Reppin
Jersey
Food >>>


http://examine.com/blog/soylent-is-made-from-hype/

A pair of posts from the author Rob Rhinehart outlining a meal replacement shake referred to as 'soylent' has been travelling around the internet the past few days. Soylent is a shake containing 200g carbohydrate (5g fiber), 50g protein, and 65g fatty acids (totalling around 1,585kcal). For the most part it includes the RDA value of all essential micronutrients. The carbohydrates are derived from starches, and the source of the protein and dietary fats are not stated in the article, though claimed to be from soya and lentil in a VICE interview. Beyond the above standard meal replacement shake, some other nutrients were added including Panax ginseng (50mcg), Ginkgo biloba (100mcg), Omega-3 fatty acds (750mg, source not stated), Lycopene (500mcg), lutein (500mcg), Vanadium (100mcg), and alpha-carotene (similar to beta-carotene, a vitamin A precursor).

From what we can tell, the authors intentions are good hearted and prudent:

"I am reticent to provide exact brand names and instructions because I am not fully convinced of the diet's safety for a physiology different than mine"

"I was home for Christmas and saw an elderly family friend get admitted to the hospital after losing an unhealthy amount of weight. He was losing strength in one of his arms and found it very difficult to cook. I started wondering why something as simple and important as food was still so inefficient, given how streamlined and optimized other modern things are. I also had an incentive to live as cheaply as possible, and I yearned for the productivity benefit of being healthy. I'd been reading a lot of books on biology, and I started to think that it's probably all the same to our cells whether it gets nutrients from a powder or a carrot."​

Yet too simplistic:

"The body is a complex machine. There are a lot of substances and chemicals required for it's optimal operation. However, it is also extremely robust. Many people aren't getting the recommended amount of any of these substances, but the body is able to compensate via complex regulatory systems. This hurts in the long run, though. In fact, turning food in to energy is the primary process that ages the body. By giving it only what it needs, and nothing it doesn't, I am optimistic about the long term effects. The short term effects are already clear."​

The closing area of his article where he states:

"So...I'll just ship you some of my batch. If you are willing to consume exclusively soylent, and get a CBC, chem panel, and lipid blood test before and after the week and share your results with me it's on the house. Bonus points for getting a psych evaluation before and after. The brain is an organ. I can ship it worldwide but it would be nice if you were in San Francisco so we can meet in person"

Leads us to believe that this is more about self-experimentation than anything else. Thus, this seems to be more about good intentions than some kind of money-making scheme.

That being said, there are a few complications with the soylent formulation independent of the author's intentions:​
  • It is indeed simplistic. Simplifying can be good, but not when you start losing critical nuances. The author notes himself that "Many people aren't getting the recommended amount of any of these substances, but the body is able to compensate via complex regulatory systems. This hurts in the long run, though" in regards to the basic vitamins and minerals, but doesn't appear to have included compounds that following vitamin-like motifs in the body (what we call Pseudovitamin compounds) that are present in food but not soylent. Absolute exclusion of Choline, Creatine, or Nitrates may have similar adverse health effects.
  • Fiber isn't digested, but that doesn't mean it is not needed. Especially with a liquid formulation, there needs to be some gel forming properties in the intestines to delay intestinal transit and allow maximal absorption. If the RDA of micronutrients is barely passable, at least do what you can to aid their absorption.
  • All added non-vitamin compounds are horrendously underdosed. Personally, I never knew you could dose ginseng or ginkgo in the microgram range (the dose of ginseng used is currently about 1800-fold less than the lowest recommended dose of 90mg). There does not appear to be any good rationale for adding these compounds to the shake and in these doses, and it seems merely the most popular compounds were added regardless of their benefit to soylent.
  • Cholesterol was omitted solely on the basis of not finding it necessary, an incorrect idea.
  • Protein set at 50g a day is sufficient for survival (according to the RDA values) although it may not be optimal for sedentary persons and definitely is not optimal for active persons. Given the benefit of physical exercise for the purpose of 'biohacking' the body, it can be expected that many active persons would want to try such a shake. Due to this, the protein content needs to be reevaluated. It should be noted that the 50g minimum was calculated for a 137.5 lb person. We've covered how much protein you need to consume every day.
  • Building on that, although the debate between having a 'complete' and 'incomplete' protein source does not matter too much at the higher range of intake (as you merely overconsume the insufficient amino acids) having plant based sources with low absorption percentages paired with a low dietary intake of protein is problematic. If protein intake is not increased, the source of protein should be switched to an animal based product like Whey Protein.
  • The intake of Vitamin D, and perhaps Vitamin K, need to be reevaluated.
  • Some trace elements, such as Boron, are not present.
  • The fat source is exclusively from Olive Oil (mostly oleic acid) rather than being a mixed source. This needs to be revisited as no omega ratio appears to be investigated and the benefit of some other fatty acids (saturated ones in Coconut Oil or particularly gamma-linoleic acid or arachidonic acid) could be included rather than blindly using one fat source
  • The carbohydrate source appears to be maltodextrin (similar to starch in the sense it is a long chain of glucose), although it appears unclear if it is solely maltodextrin. This is not an ideal carbohydrate source for infrequent consumption due to its rapid absorption and high GI (although this bullet is more pedantic than the others). Switching to an alternate carbohydrate source that is absorbed slower or possible one that (with dietary fiber or other indigestible components such as cellulose) has some benefit to intestinal microflora, would be prudent
Soylent really needs a reformulation if this takes off and more people decide to 'experiment' with themselves. Bumping the fiber up to 30g and adding some pseudovitamins would be a good start, but honestly the exclusion of food is something not many people should even consider. Once that happens, then it would likely just become another standard meal replacement shake.

The inherent problem with micromanaging foods down to their molecules is that there is a remarkable amount of molecules that you need to keep track of - the essential vitamins and minerals are not enough. Meal replacement shakes have, up until now, thrived as they replace one or two meals in the day and then mention that the consumer should 'eat a healthy well balanced meal' otherwise; absolute exclusion of food has never been recommended traditionally.

Soylent is not a new concept, although the idea of a meal replacement shake may be getting a second wind due to soylent. It needs a reformulation as the current one is very loosely based on what the RDA of micronutrients. It's quite deficient in several areas, and needs a much more thorough evaluation on its contents.​




Although I do believe this can greatly benefit less fortunate areas of the world.
 
Joined
May 1, 2012
Messages
7,737
Reputation
2,725
Daps
24,023
Reppin
Des Moines, IA
Food >>>


http://examine.com/blog/soylent-is-made-from-hype/






Although I do believe this can greatly benefit less fortunate areas of the world.

Obviously a very old article, the whole critique seems to be that there needs to be a reformulation...which is happening daily in their research lab. 3 examples just mentioned in the article (1500 kcal, 5g fiber, 50g protein) are all much lower than the current formula which is 2200 kcal, 40g fiber, and 80 (possible 120) g protein. The final formula is still being tweaked and won't be published until closer to shipping time.

Furthermore, this is merely an experiment for a week and not something being done daily for the rest of my life. I consider it similar to a juice fast in the sense of getting rid of whole foods, but much superior to that considering calorie levels are retained and complete nutrient profile from macro-to-micro is obtained
 
Joined
May 1, 2012
Messages
7,737
Reputation
2,725
Daps
24,023
Reppin
Des Moines, IA
soy increases estrogen levels...enjoy your t*ts breh

Wild exaggeration

Let's say that 1/3rd of the protein content is derived from soy (just a guess, the makers of it say there is "not much" soy in it). That would mean 40 g of soy protein per day. Not going to give anyone t*ts, especially doing it for a week.
 

Slystallion

Live to Strive
WOAT
Supporter
Joined
May 4, 2012
Messages
13,106
Reputation
-10,417
Daps
17,418
Wild exaggeration

Let's say that 1/3rd of the protein content is derived from soy (just a guess, the makers of it say there is "not much" soy in it). That would mean 40 g of soy protein per day. Not going to give anyone t*ts, especially doing it for a week.

yeah but i wouldn't want anything in my body thats going to affect my testosterone levels negatively...soy makes people fat
 
Joined
May 1, 2012
Messages
7,737
Reputation
2,725
Daps
24,023
Reppin
Des Moines, IA
yeah but i wouldn't want anything in my body thats going to affect my testosterone levels negatively...soy makes people fat

The soy levels are my #1 concern with this for sure, so I am waiting until the final formulation is published before determining whether this is a one time experiment or something I might maybe do for 1 week out of every month. I just looked at the Soylent homepage again though and in the FAQ section it asks "Is there any soy in Soylent" and the answer given is "Hardly Any" :dj2:

Looks like most of the protein will be derived from rice. Which brings me to my #2 concern, which is incomplete protein chains. Even 120g of protein is not enough for someone as active as I am, when that protein is coming from plant or grain or other non-animal sources. I will almost undoubtedly be supplementing with complete, animal based proteins (whey powder, milk, and chicken breast most likely)
 
Joined
May 1, 2012
Messages
7,737
Reputation
2,725
Daps
24,023
Reppin
Des Moines, IA
Food >>>


http://examine.com/blog/soylent-is-made-from-hype/


Although I do believe this can greatly benefit less fortunate areas of the world.

Another good response to this type of criticism, from the creator who was on month 2 of having 92% of his meals as Soylent:

Perhaps this does not constitute the ideal diet, but I am quite confident that it is healthier than any easy diet, and easier than any healthy diet. I'm touched so many people are concerned about my intake of possible unknown essential nutrients. No one seemed to worry about me when I lived on burritos and ramen and actually was deficient of many known essential nutrients. The body is pretty robust. If you can survive on what most Americans or Somalians eat, you can surely survive on Soylent. I'm no longer just surviving, though. I'm thriving.

That definitely raises a point I think a lot of people miss. When nutritionists and dieticians harp about how "multi vitamins are useless" and stuff like that (similar to this Soylent critique), they are basing their comment on the idea that people are getting complete nutrition from whole food already. Reality is, most people are living on crap and aren't eating enough fruits and vegetables and fiber and various other missing nutrients. These critiques assume that diets are already healthy, when they are not.
 
Joined
May 1, 2012
Messages
7,737
Reputation
2,725
Daps
24,023
Reppin
Des Moines, IA
For why?

I like food, fawk drinking nutrients, I chew them bytches

A few reasons:

1) Genuine curiousity....the idea of getting all my nutrients for a single, easy to prepare source is intriguing. Kind of like pet food for humans. This idea may seem silly to some people, but not me.

2) Eating strictly for nutrition....I love a nice gourmet meal, but other than the occasional splurge at a nice restaurant, most of my eating is already strictly for nutrition. Eating can even be a chore for me sometimes. I struggle to get in 2900 calories per day right now without filling it with junk calories. Why not have a quick liquid source? I mean, virtually everyone visiting this subforum supplements their protein intake with powdered shakes. So what is odd about just supplementing the entire diet with that instead?

3) A "cleanse"....I don't mean that in the sense of a stupid hippie cleanse on the pharmacy shelf. I mean, just a full replenishment of nutrients for my body to correct itself and get rid of things like sugar and grease cravings. Virtually every account I have read so far of people who have tried it has said that their food cravings have disappeared while using Soylent

4) It doesn't have to be a complete meal replacement. You don't need to stop eating food, but if you don't have time to get a good healthy meal it can provide a complete nutrient profile on the go. I can imagine a scenario where if I feel better while using Soylent, I permanently replace breakfast and lunch with a glass of Soylent and then cook a whole meal for dinner. Eating healthy while at work is a serious problem that can easily be overcome using this stuff

5) Ease of use....the statement here is probably true "I am quite confident that it is healthier than any easy diet, and easier than any healthy diet."

Now, $9 per 2400 calories is a bit much for permanent use. If they can get it down to $7 I would be more likely to use it more than once. But this 1 week I am experimenting will tell the whole story as to whether it is something I want to explore further. Also, the final nutritional info will impact it but it seems to be like they are doing a good job getting advice from dieticians and correcting nutrient deficiencies.
 

Majestyx

Duck Season
Joined
May 2, 2012
Messages
16,874
Reputation
2,444
Daps
38,797
Reppin
Los Scandalous
i've been following it also for quite some time. my interest init is curiosity and i dont give a f uck about 'eating' i eat cuz i have to not cuz i like it liek that. seems like an intersting alternative, but also seems kinda fukked up.
 

MMS

Intensity Integrity Intelligence
Staff member
Joined
Apr 30, 2012
Messages
26,201
Reputation
3,586
Daps
31,093
Reppin
Auburn, AL
soy has a hormone in it that mimics progesterone if im not mistaken

i concur with @Slystallion i dont mess with soy

unless its like mongolian barbecue, i do like tofu in mongolian barbecue :ohlawd:
 

The ADD

Old Master
Joined
May 11, 2012
Messages
46,917
Reputation
5,904
Daps
95,096
I can't figure out the struggle to hit 2900 I do 2000ish with little to no "starch" carbs
 
Top