The gentrification of college basketball

[pete clemenza]

Kinda of a long read. Its along the lines what we've discussed in here about kids from lower incomes not really at big college programs or making the league anymore

The gentrification of college hoops — The Undefeated

 

[Originalman]

Kinda of a long read. Its along the lines what we've discussed in here about kids from lower incomes not really at big college programs or making the league anymore

The gentrification of college hoops — The Undefeated

A little deceiving because the data uses kids who parents did or did not go to college.

Far more people attend college than say 30 years ago. One reason is jobs that did not require college degrees or associate degrees now do.

Second it is much more easier to attend college now with easier access to junior college and online schools. One main reason for this is college education is big business for schools. Aka for profit education.

Finally a parent attending college does not mean they completed college. But it checks off their child as being a second generation college student once that child attends college.

So as a person you can attend college for a semester and drop out. Get married have a child and never attend college again. But if your child attends college the child will be a second generation college student and not a first generation.

 

[DatNkkaCutty]

 

[Guess Who]

This is why the NBA sucks now. Creativity and competitiveness isn't fostered by the AAU pipeline. Kids don't even play pickup anymore. Their coaches limit their non-structured basketball to avoid injuries and the development of bad habits. But what also happens is they don't play enough to develop natural basketball instincts. The talent level has suffered as a result.

I'm seeing this all happen as my little brother goes through the AAU circuit.

 

[UpAndComing]

Yup, they are gentrifying it to create a landscape to have more American white athletes to play the game

Hence the rise of Zone defense, Analytics, and highly structured system offenses

 

[tremonthustler1]

Yup, they are gentrifying it to create a landscape to have more American white athletes to play the game

Hence the rise of Zone defense, Analytics, and highly structured system offenses

I don't see how this gives white American players an added advantage unless you're implying they're smarter.

 

[UpAndComing]

I don't see how this gives white American players an added advantage unless you're implying they're smarter.

Zone defense allows for non athletic/less talented players to defend talented players

Steve Kerr actually alluded to this on that NBA TV Open Court show, and had an argument with Steve Smith about it. Kerr admitted that less talented people benefited, and Steve Smith was like "Well then they don't belong in the league then"

And idk how you're assuming Analytics makes someone smarter. But white coaches use it more than black coaches, and it's a way to not hire black coaches as an excuse that "they just aren't up with the times". Analytics also can inflate a average white player's stats to bring more of them to the league. Similar to how they overrate Draymond Green's impact on the Warriors

 

[EducatedBrothaFromTheBank]

great read, not sure i agree with the blaming LeBron part, although its worth a debate.

 

[godkiller]

The article says that the poorer students ar funneled now into HBCUs rather than other schools, which in general is good for black Americans. Hence this is an unexpectedly beneficial consequence from D1 schools overlooking 1st generation athletes. HBCUs could use more students and basketball and football talent. Quote:

"The more elite the university’s academic and athletic reputation, the more these dynamics come into play. By contrast, the number of first gens at historically black colleges and universities (HBCUs) is increasing, with the percentage now more than twice the rate of other schools."

 

[TRY GOD]

The article says that the poorer students are being funneled now into HBCUs rather than other schools, which in general is good for black Americans. Hence there is an unexpectedly good consequence from D1 schools overlooking 1st generation athletes. Quote:

"The more elite the university’s academic and athletic reputation, the more these dynamics come into play. By contrast, the number of first gens at historically black colleges and universities (HBCUs) is increasing, with the percentage now more than twice the rate of other schools."

 

[tremonthustler1]

Zone defense allows for non athletic/less talented players to defend talented players

Steve Kerr actually alluded to this on that NBA TV Open Court show, and had an argument with Steve Smith about it. Kerr admitted that less talented people benefited, and Steve Smith was like "Well then they don't belong in the league then"

And idk how you're assuming Analytics makes someone smarter. But white coaches use it more than black coaches, and it's a way to not hire black coaches as an excuse that "they just aren't up with the times". Analytics also can inflate a average white player's stats to bring more of them to the league. Similar to how they overrate Draymond Green's impact on the Warriors

To the bolded: why is that? Why not use added information at your disposal, because that's what advanced statistics are? It's not like it's a play you call. It's just added info. The ones who understand it have a leg up. Same in baseball when teams kept going after pitchers who threw fast and hitters who hit for power, Oakland went after guys who were really good at getting on base that nobody was touching. With basketball, you don't look at a player and say "well he's good at analytics." Draymond Green's raw stats aren't inflated due to analytics. Analytics just let you see that the numbers he puts up make up more of an impact than they appear and you can draw your own conclusions based off that-- hell, even those stats can be simplified for the unaware.


When you see that basketball training is damn near like soccer now, that shyt matters more than just the kid who isos everyone to death in pickup games.

 

[Anerdyblackguy]

Did any of you guys read the article? Some of these answers seem bizarre.

Sidenote: I did not know Tremont Waters will be a twenty year old freshman. Crazy.

 

[UpAndComing]

To the bolded: why is that? Why not use added information at your disposal, because that's what advanced statistics are? It's not like it's a play you call. It's just added info. The ones who understand it have a leg up. Same in baseball when teams kept going after pitchers who threw fast and hitters who hit for power, Oakland went after guys who were really good at getting on base that nobody was touching. With basketball, you don't look at a player and say "well he's good at analytics." Draymond Green's raw stats aren't inflated due to analytics. Analytics just let you see that the numbers he puts up make up more of an impact than they appear and you can draw your own conclusions based off that-- hell, even those stats can be simplified for the unaware.


When you see that basketball training is damn near like soccer now, that shyt matters more than just the kid who isos everyone to death in pickup games.

Well personally, I think Analytics is pure bullshyt

Which I can assume the experienced Black coaches also think so, which is why they don't employ it
Raw stats can tell the story pretty well actually. I also like cross reference stats too, like how many points allowed against West Conf teams, or how many ppg James Harden scores against the Cavs, etc etc. To me, those are pretty good in painting a picture on how a coach can adjust to make his players and team more successful, and what to emphasize on, so they can improve

Analytics is extremely flawed, because those Stats are calculated in the moment, have have no bearing on how that person is doing overall, and has no bearing on the many factors that influence those analytics. It's similar to Calculus. It's cool to calculate what's happening instantaneously, but it applies nothing to the real world. I took a couple Statistics classes before. Influential factors can change alot of things. For instance someone's + / - of a player depends alot on who's on the floor with him, how talented is the person he's guarding and scoring against, the pace of the game, is someone in foul trouble and not giving it 100%, is someone injured/hobbled, how good is the floor spacing, etc etc. It can go on and on. And just like the nature of Statistics, you can manipulate the numbers to fit any narrative you want

And to the bolded... perfect example of the propaganda of the pre Zone defense/offense era likes to say. The highly structured system offense highlights average players. If you're a star, YOU WILL HAVE ISO PLAYS CALLED FOR YOU. That's basically what being a star means. shyt, even a post up by a center is basically an isolation play

 

[tremonthustler1]

Well personally, I think Analytics is pure bullshyt

Which I can assume the experienced Black coaches also think so, which is why they don't employ it
Raw stats can tell the story pretty well actually. I also like cross reference stats too, like how many points allowed against West Conf teams, or how many ppg James Harden scores against the Cavs, etc etc. To me, those are pretty good in painting a picture on how a coach can adjust to make his players and team more successful, and what to emphasize on, so they can improve

Analytics is extremely flawed, because those Stats are calculated in the moment, have have no bearing on how that person is doing overall, and has no bearing on the many factors that influence those analytics. It's similar to Calculus. It's cool to calculate what's happening instantaneously, but it applies nothing to the real world. I took a couple Statistics classes before. Influential factors can change alot of things. For instance someone's + / - of a player depends alot on who's on the floor with him, how talented is the person he's guarding and scoring against, the pace of the game, is someone in foul trouble and not giving it 100%, is someone injured/hobbled, how good is the floor spacing, etc etc. It can go on and on. And just like the nature of Statistics, you can manipulate the numbers to fit any narrative you want

And to the bolded... perfect example of the propaganda of the pre Zone defense/offense era likes to say. The highly structured system offense highlights average players. If you're a star, YOU WILL HAVE ISO PLAYS CALLED FOR YOU. That's basically what being a star means. shyt, even a post up by a center is basically an isolation play

to the bolded: you don't have to be a star in order for someone to think you are and force feed you iso plays you have no business running.

influential factors matter though, which is all those numbers try to capture. Everything is open to interpretation, whereas you may have looked at raw numbers and come to an absolute conclusion.

 

[HandyWithTheSteel]

This is why the NBA sucks now. Creativity and competitiveness isn't fostered by the AAU pipeline. Kids don't even play pickup anymore. Their coaches limit their non-structured basketball to avoid injuries and the development of bad habits. But what also happens is they don't play enough to develop natural basketball instincts. The talent level has suffered as a result.

I'm seeing this all happen as my little brother goes through the AAU circuit.

The league is just now climbing out of the doldrums of the inefficient, iso-heavy 2000s. Nowadays, the league is all about ball movement, pinpoint shooting, efficiency, and teamwork. And the league is much better as a result.

You're complaining about players not playing enough pickup ball? Everyone just wants to go one-on-one in pickup games.