Birnin Zana
Honorary Wakandan
In order:
FANTASTIC FOUR #606-608 by Hickman.
New Avengers by Hickman.
Time Runs Out by Hickman.
Secret Wars by Hickman.
Official Black Panther MCU Thread
- Thread starter Birnin Zana
- Start date
In order:
FANTASTIC FOUR #606-608 by Hickman.
New Avengers by Hickman.
Time Runs Out by Hickman.
Secret Wars by Hickman.
Did issue 3 come out yet?
Birnin Zana
Honorary Wakandan
Comes out this Wednesday.
meaning Tuesday for me.
Birnin Zana
Honorary Wakandan
I couldn't get into the FF stuff with Storm & BP. Then again, I couldn't get into it before or after...for the most part.
Birnin Zana
Honorary Wakandan
The FF with Storm and BP by McDuffie?
That shyt was dope, and low key hilarious. I wish McDuffie would've wrote Storm and BP after Hudlin left the book.
Concerning VIolence
Decolonizer
This muthafukka had the nerve to make it seem like DD> BPDD protects 4 blocks in NYC BP protects an entire nation against greedy CaC's. He had the nerve the likes of luke cage and spider man treating him like a little dun
but other then he was like the ghetto batman which was cool...I haven't started the most dangerous man alive yet though...
What are some of the ARC's that hickman wrote? I don't think I've ready any yet...
Breh, I had to suspend all my disbelief reading through man without fear.
I feel like none of that or "most dangerous man alive" should be canon...with Hickman, it's basically from New Avengers up to the very end of Secret Wars.
And the FF titles that @Realdealholy numbered deals with Black Panther leaving Hell's Kitchen back for Wakanda and becoming King of the Dead which I think is is an important segue.
I guess my main issue right now is how its been done. I don't think it is necessary to have rapist chieftains acting unopposed and human trafficking ops in Wakanda to show that Wakanda is going through stuff based on the previous events. And if you are gonna have those things happening, it would be really helpful to have someone within the royal family or the government doing something about it, outside of the Midnight Angels who have gone rogue. The Wakandan government is kinda looking madright now. Where are the patrols around the Nigandan border region (where the human trafficking ops are happening), especially being that Wakanda got attacked and eventually blown up by outsiders not long ago? How is it that a chieftain has been doing fukked up things to young girls and women for a minute and literally no one went to the authorities about it or even did anything about it, till Aneka showed up? Perhaps there are clear in-story reasons for those situations outside of what we've been given, but I feel the current reasons aren't necessarily well explained / well defined or possibly kinda lacking.
but that's real stuff.
I don't mind the most technological and scientifically advanced country on Earth having an episode of imperfection. I feel like that alone should tell you something about what they're really going through in this collapse of their society. It's a country basically steeped in civil war rn.To me, Coates wanting to do this and writing these scenarios out is not being disrespectful to the BP or Wakanda mythos. It's setting up for something. But that's the thing, everyone wants an explanation for everything in the matter of 2 issues when Coates clearly started the story out in media res.
Birnin Zana
Honorary Wakandan
but that's real stuff.
But that's the thing though: Wakanda has been going through major moments of imperfection for at least 7+ years now. From Deadliest of the Species, to Doomwar, to AvX, to New Avengers, to Time Runs Out. The BP mythos took major hits each time, and even got blown up in TRO, with its population being wiped out. At this point, it should be obvious that Wakanda is nowhere close to being perfect.
Coates deciding to use the previous events to bring about the current premise is understandable to me. That said, there's simply no way, imho, that either T'Challa, Shuri, or Ramonda would tolerate those trafficking camps or lecherous chieftains in their land. It's one thing for those things to be occuring in light of the recent upheavals, but its a whole 'nother issue when no one with the Wakandan government appears to be proactive about it. I would be much more accepting of such things occuring in Wakanda if the royal family / Wakandan government was doing something about it, even if their efforts weren't as effective as they hoped due to the situation that is growing vis-a-vis Zenzi and "The People."
I honestly don't think Coates means any harm or wrote his script with some ill will or malicious intent in mind.It just so happened that, based on his research and observations, BP continuity managed to fit into such a story. Like any other BP writer, his political views will trickle in his writing here and there, no different than how it went about with McGregor (based on the limited mcgregor stuff I read), Priest, Hudlin, and Mayberry.
It's only two issues in and I'll def give the current run a chance. I do hope the story picks up though, its moving rather slowly imho. Almost on some Ultimates shyt, which can hurt the book.
Birnin Zana
Honorary Wakandan
@Concerning VIolence I wrote a post concerning what we are talking about at CBR not long ago. I'll post it below. It should further clarify my stance on the Coates run. Apologies for the length.
=============
I think ultimately what's ruffling people's feathers isn't just the premise itself, but mostly how its being done.
Take the "ignored plight of black women" topic for example. Absolutely nothing wrong with touching that issue in of itself. However, since when at any point in Wakanda's 50 year publication history has Wakanda suffered from misogyny, rapes by chieftains (with no one doing anything about it), and high-level human trafficking operations, all under the royal family's nose? Not to say that it isn't possible for certain Wakandan males to do such things, but for the royal family to not know about it and Wakandan society not doing anything about it? That simply isn't a good look.
Not to mention that those things also contradict BP lore in a major way: Wakanda being advanced both technologically and socially, Wakanda having highly competent leadership throughout its history via the BPs and the royal family, and Wakanda being a country that has shown women a lot of respect, imho. The Dora Milaje are highly-respected in Wakandan society (in the Priest run, to harm a Dora usually means death). Wakandans, males included, have always respected the authority of their Queens, including foreigners like Ramonda and Storm. And very recently, Wakanda had a Queen in Shuri who was the absolute ruler and Wakandans have been shown on panel to ralliy behind her on more than one occasion.
One way to showcase the plight of black women in the BP book, imho could've been T'Challa and several female characters (a combo of the Midnight Angels, the Doras, Shuri, whoever), heading towards the Nigandan border region and seeing a human trafficking operations happening in Niganda. T'Challa and company, for whatever reason, decide to help. The women are saved and they mention that they have been captives for some time and that there are many more human trafficking ops at the Nigandan side of boarder region. One of the women in question, to T'Challa and company's surprise, happens to be a Wakandan. She implores T'Challa to do something to stop the operations.
Now, T'Challa and co. have a decision to make: do they break against tradition even further help those women on the Nigandan side of the boarder, violating even further Wakanda's isolationist policy? You can have one character saying "yes, they should help" on moral grounds (or even moral and political grounds, in a way). Another character, though highly sympathetic, is reluctant to go ahead with it due to Wakanda's long standing isolationist policy and not wanting to potentially drag Wakandan in a conflict so soon after the events of Doomwar, AvX, and especially NA/TRO (or some other legitimate reason). T'Challa makes his decision (to go help in some way shape or form) and the story goes on from there.
In this scenario, the following is achieved:
-The story puts to the forefront a plight that women--and in this case, black women--face.
-The story shows that said plight has been ignored for some time, in this case by Wakandans vis-a-vis their neighboring country. The Wakandans meant no harm in doing so, but their isolationist policy resulted in unintended consequences.
-The Wakandans look heroic. They break their rule of non-intervention and save a group of people, all but one of them non-Wakandans.
-The debate is placed in the forefront. All sides are considered.
-The female characters have a lot of agency: the female characters taking part in the rescuing. The women being rescued, including the lone Wakandan captive, make their case to the Wakandans. Those in favor of going further to shut down the ops in the border region. Those that are reluctant about it for political reasons.
-The "King" in "King T'Challa" is in full effect. This is T'Challa's call and he has the final authority on which direction his people will go on this issue. Also, I think its important for a male character to be involved in the debate and the tackling of the issue, so who better than the main and titular character of the BP franchise?
-BP lore and continuity is acknowledged and respected. Acknowledgement of the previous events. The effects the previous events have caused in Wakanda. Wakanda's isolationist policy (and the debates and challenges that policy has caused in recent years). The agency the female characters of the BP-verse usually have. The troubled nation of Niganda.
-Fisticuffs via the rescue of the first group of women. It's a comic book after all and T'Challa and his supporting cast are highly competent in the art of whooping ass. That scene showcases that.
It's not perfect and probably an adjustment (if not several) here and there would be needed, but I would've been very pleased if Coates went that route with the issue. Or went another way, but with similar themes.
I'm sure Coates isn't going his current direction with any malicious intent or ill will, but so far, Wakanda as a nation looks bad. Wakandan society looks bad. T'Challa seems somewhat incompetent (though the in-story reason is that he's distracted), and the Wakandan government is looking kinda shady, with the lecherous chieftains getting away with their actions for so long with no one doing anything about it till Aneka showed up.
It's still early and for all we know things turn around from #3 onward. But I am def concerned with the direction. I hope my concerns are proven to be unfounded when its all said and done.
=============
I think ultimately what's ruffling people's feathers isn't just the premise itself, but mostly how its being done.
Take the "ignored plight of black women" topic for example. Absolutely nothing wrong with touching that issue in of itself. However, since when at any point in Wakanda's 50 year publication history has Wakanda suffered from misogyny, rapes by chieftains (with no one doing anything about it), and high-level human trafficking operations, all under the royal family's nose? Not to say that it isn't possible for certain Wakandan males to do such things, but for the royal family to not know about it and Wakandan society not doing anything about it? That simply isn't a good look.
Not to mention that those things also contradict BP lore in a major way: Wakanda being advanced both technologically and socially, Wakanda having highly competent leadership throughout its history via the BPs and the royal family, and Wakanda being a country that has shown women a lot of respect, imho. The Dora Milaje are highly-respected in Wakandan society (in the Priest run, to harm a Dora usually means death). Wakandans, males included, have always respected the authority of their Queens, including foreigners like Ramonda and Storm. And very recently, Wakanda had a Queen in Shuri who was the absolute ruler and Wakandans have been shown on panel to ralliy behind her on more than one occasion.
One way to showcase the plight of black women in the BP book, imho could've been T'Challa and several female characters (a combo of the Midnight Angels, the Doras, Shuri, whoever), heading towards the Nigandan border region and seeing a human trafficking operations happening in Niganda. T'Challa and company, for whatever reason, decide to help. The women are saved and they mention that they have been captives for some time and that there are many more human trafficking ops at the Nigandan side of boarder region. One of the women in question, to T'Challa and company's surprise, happens to be a Wakandan. She implores T'Challa to do something to stop the operations.
Now, T'Challa and co. have a decision to make: do they break against tradition even further help those women on the Nigandan side of the boarder, violating even further Wakanda's isolationist policy? You can have one character saying "yes, they should help" on moral grounds (or even moral and political grounds, in a way). Another character, though highly sympathetic, is reluctant to go ahead with it due to Wakanda's long standing isolationist policy and not wanting to potentially drag Wakandan in a conflict so soon after the events of Doomwar, AvX, and especially NA/TRO (or some other legitimate reason). T'Challa makes his decision (to go help in some way shape or form) and the story goes on from there.
In this scenario, the following is achieved:
-The story puts to the forefront a plight that women--and in this case, black women--face.
-The story shows that said plight has been ignored for some time, in this case by Wakandans vis-a-vis their neighboring country. The Wakandans meant no harm in doing so, but their isolationist policy resulted in unintended consequences.
-The Wakandans look heroic. They break their rule of non-intervention and save a group of people, all but one of them non-Wakandans.
-The debate is placed in the forefront. All sides are considered.
-The female characters have a lot of agency: the female characters taking part in the rescuing. The women being rescued, including the lone Wakandan captive, make their case to the Wakandans. Those in favor of going further to shut down the ops in the border region. Those that are reluctant about it for political reasons.
-The "King" in "King T'Challa" is in full effect. This is T'Challa's call and he has the final authority on which direction his people will go on this issue. Also, I think its important for a male character to be involved in the debate and the tackling of the issue, so who better than the main and titular character of the BP franchise?
-BP lore and continuity is acknowledged and respected. Acknowledgement of the previous events. The effects the previous events have caused in Wakanda. Wakanda's isolationist policy (and the debates and challenges that policy has caused in recent years). The agency the female characters of the BP-verse usually have. The troubled nation of Niganda.
-Fisticuffs via the rescue of the first group of women. It's a comic book after all and T'Challa and his supporting cast are highly competent in the art of whooping ass. That scene showcases that.
It's not perfect and probably an adjustment (if not several) here and there would be needed, but I would've been very pleased if Coates went that route with the issue. Or went another way, but with similar themes.
I'm sure Coates isn't going his current direction with any malicious intent or ill will, but so far, Wakanda as a nation looks bad. Wakandan society looks bad. T'Challa seems somewhat incompetent (though the in-story reason is that he's distracted), and the Wakandan government is looking kinda shady, with the lecherous chieftains getting away with their actions for so long with no one doing anything about it till Aneka showed up.
It's still early and for all we know things turn around from #3 onward. But I am def concerned with the direction. I hope my concerns are proven to be unfounded when its all said and done.
Yeah. I couldn't finish it. But I haven't been able to get into the FF much at all, before that or even after it. I have to go back and re-read it.
Birnin Zana
Honorary Wakandan
Interesting. It's the only FF book I've ever finished, from beginning to end. Granted, I'm not a FF fan or big on the cosmic stuff, but McDuffie did good with Storm, BP, and even the FF, imho.
I still
I still have them, so I'm gonna revisit. I wasn't a fan of the FF in general or most of the cosmic stuff.
I still have them, so I'm gonna revisit. I wasn't a fan of the FF in general or most of the cosmic stuff.
