Official Black Panther MCU Thread

[Concerning VIolence]

One more week

Hope there's not another delay again for next month, or any for the rest of the arc really.




On a side note, I'd like to point out that the BP fans on CBR are some bitter bytches. This is easily the most successful era BP will ever have and those fans and will reiterate any tangent possible to make it seem like Coates' T'challa is the worst thing on the planet and that "wakanda is not how it should be portrayed" and that the sky is falling. These guys were dissecting and making cynical diatribes after only the first issue.


Coates' pacing and intrigue is on point in #2.

I get the gripes of the "wakanda in turmoil" "T'challa getting smacked down" tropes being beaten in the ground again, but it's like they fail to realize this is the FIRST arc. Coates is going to write a whole bunch of shyt after this.



Like we're not even THREE issues in.

 

[Ziggiy]

Hope there's not another delay again for next month, or any for the rest of the arc really.




On a side note, I'd like to point out that the BP fans on CBR are some bitter bytches. This is easily the most successful era BP will ever have and those fans and will reiterate any tangent possible to make it seem like Coates' T'challa is the worst thing on the planet and that "wakanda is not how it should be portrayed" and that the sky is falling. These guys were dissecting and making cynical diatribes after only the first issue.


Coates' pacing and intrigue is on point in #2.

I get the gripes of the "wakanda in turmoil" "T'challa getting smacked down" tropes being beaten in the ground again, but it's like they fail to realize this is the FIRST arc. Coates is going to write a whole bunch of shyt after this.



Like we're not even THREE issues in.

To be fair alot of those fans are diehard fans from the Priest era, which was Black Panther at his HEIGHT of being a stone cold, calculating badass who took NO losses, or if he did, came back harder than ever. Then we got Hudlin's run which was a suave, globe trotting, almost Bond-like T'Challa with one of the most powerful, popular, and desirable mutants in the WORLD as his wife. Then after that it's been an almost decade long run of T'Challa being depowered, emasculated, disowned by his people, beaten to a pulp, divorced, outsmarted by his enemies, named unworthy by his own fukking God and outmaneuvered by Doom, all leading up to him breaking down and CRYING ON PANEL ON HIS KNEES before the shade of his father who rebuked him....


It's been a rough road being a T'Challa fan these past couple years, even the "victory" that Hickman left him with was a pyricch one in a way as he was (again) physically beaten by Doom and left with a partially "reset" Wakanda in which his people are rebelling against his rule as a result of his previous failures and his sister is left in a state of tortured stasis...


So I give them ALOT of leeway when it comes to being shall we say...hesitant at the way T'Challa is being portrayed in these first couple of issues. Me personally I'm willing to give Ta'Nahesi Coates the benefit of the doubt for the reasons you stated, plus the fact that I don't think he'd sign up to write the character for the next couple of years to have him get his ass kicked and fail at every endeavor, it simply doesn't make logical sense.

 

[Birnin Zana]

Hope there's not another delay again for next month, or any for the rest of the arc really.

Yea, those delays are killer, especially this current one. I hope we don't have to deal with this again anytime soon.

On a side note, I'd like to point out that the BP fans on CBR are some bitter bytches. This is easily the most successful era BP will ever have and those fans and will reiterate any tangent possible to make it seem like Coates' T'challa is the worst thing on the planet and that "wakanda is not how it should be portrayed" and that the sky is falling. These guys were dissecting and making cynical diatribes after only the first issue.


Coates' pacing and intrigue is on point in #2.

I get the gripes of the "wakanda in turmoil" "T'challa getting smacked down" tropes being beaten in the ground again, but it's like they fail to realize this is the FIRST arc. Coates is going to write a whole bunch of shyt after this.



Like we're not even THREE issues in.

I see what you're saying, but you have to understand where they are coming from. I happen to agree with many of their grievances too.

A lot of the CBR people have been fans since at the least the Hudlin years or earlier (Priest years, McGregor years for example). This means that they were fans since T'Challa received his first major L against Doom, an L that almost killed him and resulted in him no longer being the BP and ruler. Ever since then, T'Challa--and sometimes his supporting cast and Wakanda--has been taking L's and pyrrhic victories for almost 7 years now. Only time that didn't happen was during the Liss run, and T'Challa was in Hells Kitchen away from Wakanda and his supporting cast, until the near end of the run (the Liss run was at its best once his supporting cast and Wakanda got involved). Stuff like Doomwar, AvX () and the Hickman run didn't help matters much either.

Coates comes in with a lot of hype and, unfortunately, we have a story in which T'Challa seems mad unsure of himself, rapes by chieftains and human trafficking ops are happening unopposed under the royal family's nose, and T'Challa is going through mad struggles again with seemingly no light ahead of the tunnel. The CBR guys have seen this for almost 7 years now, so they are rightfully tired of it. I don't blame them at all.

I personally hope that my suspicions of the Coates run end up being wrong and that this story-arc and future story arcs are overall great stories that we can look back on positively. The run so far is well-written and the art is on point. Being that we are only two issues in, I try my best to give it a chance, especially being that some of the runs I've enjoyed in the past, such as the Hudlin and Liss runs, didn't necessarily have great starts but ended strong, imho. Not to mention that the current run is selling very well at the moment, especially for BP. Regardless of my feelings of the premise and the book, that is def a positive in the long run.

That said, I hope things turn around soon storywise. I'm not a fan of reading my favorite hero constantly taking loses and/or pyrrhic victories. At some point he has a have a clear win, especially in his own book. If he can't get a win in his own book, where else can he get it?

 

[Concerning VIolence]

To be fair alot of those fans are diehard fans from the Priest era, which was Black Panther at his HEIGHT of being a stone cold, calculating badass who took NO losses, or if he did, came back harder than ever. Then we got Hudlin's run which was a suave, globe trotting, almost Bond-like T'Challa with one of the most powerful, popular, and desirable mutants in the WORLD as his wife. Then after that it's been an almost decade long run of T'Challa being depowered, emasculated, disowned by his people, beaten to a pulp, divorced, outsmarted by his enemies, named unworthy by his own fukking God and outmaneuvered by Doom, all leading up to him breaking down and CRYING ON PANEL ON HIS KNEES before the shade of his father who rebuked him....


It's been a rough road being a T'Challa fan these past couple years, even the "victory" that Hickman left him with was a pyricch one in a way as he was (again) physically beaten by Doom and left with a partially "reset" Wakanda in which his people are rebelling against his rule as a result of his previous failures and his sister is left in a state of tortured stasis...


So I give them ALOT of leeway when it comes to being shall we say...hesitant at the way T'Challa is being portrayed in these first couple of issues. Me personally I'm willing to give Ta'Nahesi Coates the benefit of the doubt for the reasons you stated, plus the fact that I don't think he'd sign up to write the character for the next couple of years to have him get his ass kicked and fail at every endeavor, it simply doesn't make logical sense.

A lot of people like to point out Priest's run but T'challa was never infallible. Infact, iirc Priest ended his run with T'challa having an aneurysm and having to leave his throne. He didn't leave him all badass and unmovable. And Priest started out with Achebe's coupe of Wakanda. And Killmonger was always beating T'challa's ass too.

It's funny because Priest never actually liked BP or wanted to write him.


I even pointed in an earlier post here before the first issue dropped that Coates going the "deconstruction of Wakanda" route was a bit suspicious.

But now I've actually read the first 2 issues and I think he know what he's doing.

Then after that it's been an almost decade long run of T'Challa being depowered, emasculated, disowned by his people, beaten to a pulp, divorced, outsmarted by his enemies, named unworthy by his own fukking God and outmaneuvered by Doom, all leading up to him breaking down and CRYING ON PANEL ON HIS KNEES before the shade of his father who rebuked him....

That's because after Hudlin no one was consistently writing for T'challa besides Liss.

plus the fact that I don't think he'd sign up to write the character for the next couple of years to have him get his ass kicked and fail at every endeavor, it simply doesn't make logical sense.

Exactly. I think people don't recognize Hickman wasn't writing for BP the series so it didn't matter to him if T'challa kept taking L's after L's.

Logically it should be clear that Coates knows what he's doing and by the end of this T'challa is going to be back on top.

Also, i think people forget Shuri technically became the official BP during Hudlin's last leg of work and you have to factor that in as to why it's been so "long" since T'challa's been on a stable foot. Shuri proved herself as the rightful Black Panther so it's not like the writers could just take that away from her and give it to T'challa without good reason. Shuri was STILL the queen come time of the incursions, while he was merely king of the dead and still emotionally recovering from Doom putting him in a coma.

So it's not like he was taking all these L's while BEING the official BP. He was taking L's on his ATTEMPTS to coming back on top.


I think it should be recognizable that T'challa has to actually be on the throne before he can start being on his A-game.

I see what you're saying, but you have to understand where they are coming from. I happen to agree with many of their grievances too.

A lot of the CBR people have been fans since at the least the Hudlin years or earlier (Priest years, McGregor years for example). This means that they were fans since T'Challa received his first major L against Doom, an L that almost killed him and resulted in him no longer being the BP and ruler. Ever since then, T'Challa--and sometimes his supporting cast and Wakanda--has been taking L's and pyrrhic victories for almost 7 years now. Only time that didn't happen was during the Liss run, and T'Challa was in Hells Kitchen away from Wakanda and his supporting cast, until the near end of the run (the Liss run was at its best once his supporting cast and Wakanda got involved). Stuff like Doomwar, AvX () and the Hickman run didn't help matters much either.

Coates comes in with a lot of hype and, unfortunately, we have a story in which T'Challa seems mad unsure of himself, rapes by chieftains and human trafficking ops are happening unopposed under the royal family's nose, and T'Challa is going through mad struggles again with seemingly no light ahead of the tunnel. The CBR guys have seen this for almost 7 years now, so they are rightfully tired of it. I don't blame them at all.

I personally hope that my suspicions of the Coates run end up being wrong and that this story-arc and future story arcs are overall great stories that we can look back on positively. The run so far is well-written and the art is on point. Being that we are only two issues in, I try my best to give it a chance, especially being that some of the runs I've enjoyed in the past, such as the Hudlin and Liss runs, didn't necessarily have great starts but ended strong, imho. Not to mention that the current run is selling very well at the moment, especially for BP. Regardless of my feelings of the premise and the book, that is def a positive in the long run.

That said, I hope things turn around soon storywise. I'm not a fan of reading my favorite hero constantly taking loses and/or pyrrhic victories. At some point he has a have a clear win, especially in his own book. If he can't get a win in his own book, where else can he get it?

Things have to get worse before they get better and I believe that's the approach Coates want to prove to us. He made it clear from the first page of issue #1 and in interviews that he wanted to resolve pretty much everything that's happened to him from Doomwar to Secret Wars. No loose ends. He didn't want to just scrape it off and pretend they never happened (despite T'challa actually going back in time before the first incursion...) and where T'challa just becomes a happy-go-lucky king again off the bat.

It's not like he can ignore T'challa's father pretty much disowning him. The state of the chieftans and Wakanda's inner circle tell us this is more than just a bad passage of events. This is the worst that can happen to T'challa: Wakanda breaking at the seams with no supervision or control. why the hell should he be so sure of himself?

Wakanda is crumbling because T'challa has to realize he has to rightfully earn his throne back, not just physically but mentally. T'challa hasn't mentally felt like a king since his coma.


It's a comeback story and we have to wait for Coates to give it to us.

 

[Ziggiy]

A lot of people like to point out Priest's run but T'challa was never infallible. Infact, iirc Priest ended his run with T'challa having an aneurysm and having to leave his throne. He didn't leave him all badass and unmovable. And Priest started out with Achebe's coupe of Wakanda. And Killmonger was always beating T'challa's ass too.

It's funny because Priest never actually liked BP or wanted to write him.


I even pointed in an earlier post here before the first issue dropped that Coates going the "deconstruction of Wakanda" route was a bit suspicious.

But now I've actually read the first 2 issues and I think he know what he's doing.




That's because after Hudlin no one was consistently writing for T'challa besides Liss.



Exactly. I think people don't recognize Hickman wasn't writing for BP the series so it didn't matter to him if T'challa kept taking L's after L's.

Logically it should be clear that Coates knows what he's doing and by the end of this T'challa is going to be back on top.

Also, i think people forget Shuri technically became the official BP during Hudlin's last leg of work and you have to factor that in as to why it's been so "long" since T'challa's been on a stable foot. Shuri proved herself as the rightful Black Panther so it's not like the writers could just take that away from her and give it to T'challa without good reason. Shuri was STILL the queen come time of the incursions, while he was merely king of the dead and still emotionally recovering from Doom putting him in a coma.

So it's not like he was taking all these L's while BEING the official BP. He was taking L's on his ATTEMPTS to coming back on top.


I think it should be recognizable that T'challa has to actually be on the throne before he can start being on his A-game.




Things have to get worse before they get better and I believe that's the approach Coates want to prove to us. He made it clear from the first page of issue #1 and in interviews that he wanted to resolve pretty much everything that's happened to him from Doomwar to Secret Wars. No loose ends. He didn't want to just scrape it off and pretend they never happened (despite T'challa actually going back in time before the first incursion...) and where T'challa just becomes a happy-go-lucky king again off the bat.

It's not like he can ignore T'challa's father pretty much disowning him. The state of the chieftans and Wakanda's inner circle tell us this is more than just a bad passage of events. This is the worst that can happen to T'challa: Wakanda breaking at the seams with no supervision or control. why the hell should he be so sure of himself?

Wakanda is crumbling because T'challa has to realize he has to rightfully earn his throne back, not just physically but mentally. T'challa hasn't mentally felt like a king since his coma.


It's a comeback story and we have to wait for Coates to give it to us.

Wrote this a couple months ago...



Obviously T'Challa is King again, this is certain. Now the question for a lot of fans isn't whether we WANT T'Challa to be King, it's rather, after the humiliating and disrespectful way Hickman neutered the character, if he DESERVES to be King. The T'Challa we see in Ultimates, is a man worthy of being King (minus the hairline lol) worthy of leading people. He is cool, calm, collected, intelligent, and able to figure out something as complex as solving the "Galactus Problem". How do we, as readers reconcile that with the weak, emasculated, and ultimately beaten character that Hickman wrote for the past 4 or so years?

I believe Coates is aware of this, I believe, if he has read Hickman's run as much studiously as claimed, that he will be using this run, and essentially the rebellion that is promised, to answer a singular question. Why DOES T'Challa deserve to be King? Remember, the enemy that will be faced in this "Season" are a group called The People. We, the readers, the fans, are essentially The People. And we have watched T'Challa become deconstructed down to a crying little boy who couldn't go forward with a plan he essentially helped formulate. Like Mr. Majestik has said before (and yourself as well) would you want someone like THAT to be your King? Would you follow such a man? Would you bleed for him? Would you DIE for him?
And would you forgive him simply because he pushed a button and "went back" to before all of these poorly made decisions occurred? A King doesn't get to "Go Back". A King doesn't get to "reclaim " his throne simply because he pushed a Gem and said "Let It Be So". A King MUST live with his decisions, be they made poorly or wisely, a King MUST be judged on the success or failure of his Kingdom, and if found wanting, a King MUST seek and EARN redemption.

This Arc will be about T'Challa's redemption, both in the eyes of his people and us as readers. T'Challa cannot TRULY be King when there are people who think Shuri would do a better job. We needn't look any further than the end of Secret Wars itself, Doom ADMITTED both to himself and to Reed that his Arch Nemesis would have done a better job as the ruling God. T'Challa will HAVE to come to that realization himself, that Shuri did a better job, when it came to ruling and fiercely PROTECTING Wakanda, and he will have to face the consequences of what his decisions have wrought.

The story is called A NATION Under Our Feet. T'Challa's greatest Foe will be the one he HIMSELF was sworn to protect and serve, Wakanda. He will have to face THE PEOPLE who lost faith in him, THE PEOPLE whom he led to ruin and slaughter, and THE PEOPLE who read all of this in silent disgust. This will be Coates, and by Proxy T'Challa's biggest battle, for the respect and renewed faith of his NATION of readers, whom he will NEED to continue supporting him as a character as he makes his transition to A-list superhero within the Marvel Continuity. If posters like Mr Majestik can BELIEVE in the concept of T'Challa as King again, then the character is redeemed. We wouldn't NEED to have talk or debate the Monarchy ending, because THE PEOPLE will have a King they can trust. The King who saved the Universe from Galactus. The King who defeated his Father's murderer. The King who was once married to one of the world's most powerful individuals. The King who can command a NATION at his feet.

 

[Birnin Zana]

Things have to get worse before they get better and I believe that's the approach Coates want to prove to us. He made it clear from the first page of issue #1 and in interviews that he wanted to resolve pretty much everything that's happened to him from Doomwar to Secret Wars. No loose ends. He didn't want to just scrape it off and pretend they never happened (despite T'challa actually going back in time before the first incursion...) and where T'challa just becomes a happy-go-lucky king again off the bat.

It's not like he can ignore T'challa's father pretty much disowning him. The state of the chieftans and Wakanda's inner circle tell us this is more than just a bad passage of events. This is the worst that can happen to T'challa: Wakanda breaking at the seams with no supervision or control. why the hell should he be so sure of himself?

Wakanda is crumbling because T'challa has to realize he has to rightfully earn his throne back, not just physically but mentally. T'challa hasn't mentally felt like a king since his coma.


It's a comeback story and we have to wait for Coates to give it to us.

To clarify, I absolutely agree that these things and many other events HAD to be addressed. It's one of my biggest beefs with the Hickman run: Hickman had T'Challa go through MAJOR shyt with his supporting cast and then low key tried to make it seem like it didn't happen or didn't matter in the grand scheme of things via off-panel shyt and time jumps.

I mean, we def can't ignore:

-Shuri banning T'Challa from Wakanda, with the support of the Hatute Zeraze and the Dora Milaje.

-T'Challa getting disowned by his pops and his ancestors.

-Namor flat out saying that he not only killed the Wakandans in AvX willingly, but he would do it again.

-Shuri dying and Wakanda taking the ultimate L.

I mean, all those events and more were MAJOR in BP history, and Hickman, rather than addressing them directly, tried to make them irrelevant via time jumps and the eventual"reset." To his credit, Coates is trying address some of these things (Shuri "dying", Wakanda getting blown up, etc). He even wanted to touch on the Namor situation but then editorial told him Namor was gonna get murked, so that idea went to the bushes.

T'Challa and/or Wakanda going through some initial struggles in of itself isn't too big of a deaI (its only two issues in, afterall). I guess my main issue right now is how its been done. I don't think it is necessary to have rapist chieftains acting unopposed and human trafficking ops in Wakanda to show that Wakanda is going through stuff based on the previous events. And if you are gonna have those things happening, it would be really helpful to have someone within the royal family or the government doing something about it, outside of the Midnight Angels who have gone rogue. The Wakandan government is kinda looking mad right now. Where are the patrols around the Nigandan border region (where the human trafficking ops are happening), especially being that Wakanda got attacked and eventually blown up by outsiders not long ago? How is it that a chieftain has been doing fukked up things to young girls and women for a minute and literally no one went to the authorities about it or even did anything about it, till Aneka showed up? Perhaps there are clear in-story reasons for those situations outside of what we've been given, but I feel the current reasons aren't necessarily well explained / well defined or possibly kinda lacking.

As for T'Challa himself, he kinda doing some stupid shyt (imo), like going to Zenzi's lookout without backup or much intel, but there's an in-story reason behind it (breh is distracted and thus seemingly off his game at the moment). We'll see if T'Challa will make progress as the story goes along.

That said, I hope that issue 3 kicks off the story into a different gear. #1 and #2 were def well-written, but they felt kinda slow imho. A slightly faster pace would be helpful, I feel.

 

[Khalil's_Black_Excellence]

Someone mentioned Derek Luke, Derek Luke would make a great Wakandan. I'd cast him as M'Baku.

He already been in the MCU tho, albeit a small ass role, lol! Captain America, The First Avenger, he was one of the Howling Commandos.

 

[Birnin Zana]

He already been in the MCU tho, albeit a small ass role, lol! Captain America, The First Avenger, he was one of the Howling Commandos.

Correct, Derek Luke was Gabe Jones in the first Cap movie.

MCU has had a lot of well-respected actors in these low-key roles.

 

[nieman]

Correct, Derek Luke was Gabe Jones in the first Cap movie.

MCU has had a lot of well-respected actors in these low-key roles.

The Marvel Motto "Pay as little as possible" Even RDJ would still be at SAG minimum if he didn't blow the roof off the expectations.

 

[Roman Brady]

The Marvel Motto "Pay as little as possible" Even RDJ would still be at SAG minimum if he didn't blow the roof off the expectations.

I think that's the model to every successful business breh

 

[Birnin Zana]

Marvel has a poll for "which pair of siblings would you call to save the day?" T'Challa and Shuri are in the poll, tied for second place.

Vote for the royals of Wakanda brehs and brehettes!

 

[teacher]

That's because after Hudlin no one was consistently writing for T'challa besides Liss.

This muthafukka had the nerve to make it seem like DD> BP DD protects 4 blocks in NYC BP protects an entire nation against greedy CaC's. He had the nerve the likes of luke cage and spider man treating him like a little dun but other then he was like the ghetto batman which was cool...I haven't started the most dangerous man alive yet though...

What are some of the ARC's that hickman wrote? I don't think I've ready any yet...

 

[Birnin Zana]

This muthafukka had the nerve to make it seem like DD> BP DD protects 4 blocks in NYC BP protects an entire nation against greedy CaC's. He had the nerve the likes of luke cage and spider man treating him like a little dun but other then he was like the ghetto batman which was cool...I haven't started the most dangerous man alive yet though...

What are some of the ARC's that hickman wrote? I don't think I've ready any yet...

Def check out Most Dangerous Man Alive, it's a definite improvement from Man without fear. T'Challa was on point during that story arc. Wakanda is involved as well so his supporting cast makes an appearance, as well as Falcon and Luke Cage. Book was funny too.

As for Hickman, you mean the BP-related stuff, ya?

 

[Birnin Zana]

BP artist Brian Stelfreeze talks about working on the ongoing Black Panther comic book.

 

[teacher]

Def check out Most Dangerous Man Alive, it's a definite improvement from Man without fear. T'Challa was on point during that story arc. Wakanda is involved as well so his supporting cast makes an appearance, as well as Falcon and Luke Cage. Book was funny too.

As for Hickman, you mean the BP-related stuff, ya?

yes sir...only characters I really care about at this point is T'challa and Miles Morales