COLI DEBATE: Should "ALL" Prisons Be ABOLISHED? (Are Prisons Really Necessary?)

[SirReginald]

JahFocus's comment INSPIRED me to make this thread.

abolish all prisons

I will be doing constructive debates more often. My last one was on flag-burning. This one is on abolishing prisons



Anyway, do you guys think ALL prisons should be ABOLISHED? In my opinion, I'm AGAINST abolishing prisons and I'll tell you why I was researching the prison abolitionist movement last night and they were dancing around what do we do with our murderers and pedos I'm for prison reform. Which means, we move into a prison model like Scandinavia. Listen, their recidivism rate is 20% which means their model works Doing 25 to life or natural life for drug crimes is stupid. Listen, the war on drugs have HURT Black people the most. I'll be doing my best to be an advocate for prison reform. Also, private prisons make money off of prison labor and corps Our goal needs to be helping our society. Plus sending people to prison for being a drug fiend is NOT rehabilitation. We need to decriminalize Marijuanna federally and NOT have brehs serving time in prison for it Yeah, there's case in which that's happened. GIT RID OF THE NEO-LIBERAL & NEO-CONSERVATIVE polices and establish real change.

Spoiler

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[froggle]

Prisons serve a purpose, but not how it's done in the United States.

If you do the crime, you need to do some time. I honestly feel some prisoners who have a heavy debt to society should be put to some serious back breaking work, where the public benefits. Buidling of public infastructure.

Others like pedophiles, need not see the light of day

 

[SirReginald]

Recidivism

CrimeSolutions.gov can help you determine what works and what doesn't in justice and victim services. Access recently rated programs:

Recidivism is one of the most fundamental concepts in criminal justice. It refers to a person's relapse into criminal behavior, often after the person receives sanctions or undergoes intervention for a previous crime. Recidivism is measured by criminal acts that resulted in rearrest, reconviction or return to prison with or without a new sentence during a three-year period following the prisoner's release.

National Statistics on Recidivism
Bureau of Justice Statistics studies have found high rates of recidivism among released prisoners. One study tracked 404,638 prisoners in 30 states after their release from prison in 2005.[1] The researchers found that:

• Within three years of release, about two-thirds (67.8 percent) of released prisoners were rearrested.
• Within five years of release, about three-quarters (76.6 percent) of released prisoners were rearrested.
• Of those prisoners who were rearrested, more than half (56.7 percent) were arrested by the end of the first year.
• Property offenders were the most likely to be rearrested, with 82.1 percent of released property offenders arrested for a new crime compared with 76.9 percent of drug offenders, 73.6 percent of public order offenders and 71.3 percent of violent offenders.

Desistance From Crime
In an effort to build on what is currently known about desistance from crime, NIJ issued a directed solicitation in 2012. RTI International, in partnership with Pennsylvania State University's Justice Center for Research, was awarded funds to conduct research that builds on earlier work that examined the main effects of re-entry programming on recidivism.

The research team theorizes that although offender services and programs may have a direct effect on desistance, individuals must decide independently to transform themselves into ex-offenders. Programs and services may facilitate transformation, just as individual transformation — or the lack thereof — may moderate the effects of re-entry assistance.

To examine the cognitive transformation theory of desistance, the RTI-Penn State study involves a long-term follow-up of more than 700 individuals who were originally interviewed between 2004 and 2005 as participants in the Multisite Evaluation of the Serious and Violent Offender Reentry Initiative (SVORI).

The participants include 582 men, 79 of whom were juveniles at the time of the original interviews, and 168 women. These individuals have extensive criminal histories, and more than 80 percent of the men and 75 percent of the women experienced at least one arrest in the four-and-a-half-year period following their release from prison between 2004 and 2005. Researchers will conduct interviews with participants focusing on cognitive transformation. These interviews will take place about a decade after the participants were first interviewed as part of SVORI and an average of 20 to 25 years after they were first arrested. In addition to conducting interviews for their study, the RTI-Penn State researchers are using existing administrative and interview data from SVORI, as well as current official arrest and reincarceration data.

Recidivism | National Institute of Justice

NRRC Facts & Trends

• Federal and state corrections facilities held over 1.6 million prisoners at the end of 2010 — approximately one of every 201 U.S. residents.1
• At least 95 percent of state prisoners will be released back to their communities at some point.2
• During 2010, 708,677 sentenced prisoners were released from state and federal prisons, an increase of nearly 20 percent from 2000.3
• Approximately 9 million individuals are released from jail each year.4
• Nearly 4.9 million individuals were on probation or parole at the end of 2010.5
• In a study that looked at recidivism in over 40 states, more than four in 10 offenders returned to state prison within three years of their release.6
• In 2009, parole violators accounted for 33.1 percent of all prison admissions, 35.2 percent of state admissions, and 8.2 percent of federal admissions.7
• Twenty-three percent of adults exiting parole in 2010 – 127,918 individuals – returned to prison as a result of violating their terms of supervision, and 9 percent of adults exiting parole in 2010 - 49,334 individuals - returned to prison as a result of a new conviction.8

Mental Health

• The incidence of serious mental illnesses is two to four times higher among prisoners than it is in the general population.9
• In a study of more than 20,000 adults entering five local jails, researchers documented serious mental illnesses in 14.5 percent of the men and 31 percent of the women, which taken together, comprises 16.9 percent of those studied — rates in excess of three to six times those found in the general population.10

Substance Abuse

• Three quarters of those returning from prison have a history of substance use disorders. Over 70 percent of prisoners with serious mental illnesses also have a substance use disorder.11
• In 2004, 53 percent of state and 45 percent of federal prisoners met Diagnostic and Statistical Manual for Mental Disorders (DSM) criteria for drug abuse or dependence. Nearly a third of state and a quarter of federal prisoners committed their offense under the influence of drugs. Among state prisoners who were dependent on or abusing drugs, 53 percent had at least three prior sentences to probation or incarceration, compared to 32 percent of other inmates. At the time of their arrest, drug dependent or abusing state prisoners (48 percent) were also more likely than other inmates (37 percent) to have been on probation or parole supervision.12
• In 2002, 68 percent of jail inmates met DSM criteria for drug abuse or dependence. Half of all convicted jail inmates were under the influence of drugs or alcohol at the time of offense. Inmates who met substance dependence/abuse criteria were twice as likely as other inmates to have three or more prior probation or incarceration sentences.13
• Only 7 percent to 17 percent of prisoners who meet DSM criteria for alcohol/drug dependence or abuse receive treatment in jail or prison.14

Housing & Homelessness

• More than 10 percent of those entering prisons and jails are homeless in the months before their incarceration. For those with mental illness, the rates are even higher — about 20 percent. Released prisoners with a history of shelter use were almost five times as likely to have a post-release shelter stay.15
• According to a qualitative study by the Vera Institute of Justice, people released from prison and jail to parole who entered homeless shelters in New York City were seven times more likely to abscond during the first month after release than those who had some form of housing.16

Health

• The prevalence of chronic illnesses and communicable diseases is far greater among people in jails and prisons.17
• In 1997, individuals released from prison or jail accounted for nearly one-quarter of all people living with HIV or AIDS, almost one-third of those diagnosed with hepatitis C, and more than one-third of those diagnosed with tuberculosis.18
• At yearend 2008, 1.5% (20,231) of male inmates and 1.9% (1,913) of female inmates held in state or federal prisons were HIV positive or had confirmed AIDS. Confirmed AIDS cases accounted for nearly a quarter (23%) of all HIV/AIDS cases in state and federal prison. In 2007, the most recent year for which general population data are available, the overall rate of estimated confirmed AIDS among the state and federal prison population (0.43%) was 2.5 times the rate in the general population (0.17%).19

Education & Employment

• Two in five prison and jail inmates lack a high school diploma or its equivalent.20
• Employment rates and earnings histories of people in prisons and jails are often low before incarceration as a result of limited education experiences, low skill levels, and the prevalence of physical and mental health problems; incarceration only exacerbates these challenges.21
• A large, three-state recidivism study found that less than half of released prisoners had secured a job upon their return to the community.22

Families

• An estimated 809,800 prisoners of the 1,518,535 held in the nation’s prisons at midyear 2007 were parents of children under age 18. Parents held in the nation’s prisons — 52 percent of state inmates and 63 percent of federal inmates — reported having an estimated 1,706,600 minor children, accounting for 2.3 percent of the U.S. resident population under age 18.23
• Since 1991, the number of children with a mother in prison has more than doubled, up 131 percent. The number of children with a father in prison has grown by 77 percent.24
• Twenty-two percent of the children of state inmates and 16 percent of the children of federal inmates were age 4 or younger. For both state (53 percent) and federal (50 percent) inmates, about half their children were age 9 or younger.25

Women and Reentry

• At the end of 2009, federal and state correctional facilities held 113,462 women, and increase of 22% since 2000.26
• At least 712,000 women were on probation and 103,000 women were on parole at yearend 2010.27
• According to an analysis of recidivism data from 15 states, 58% of women released from state prison in 1994 were rearrested, 38% were reconvicted, and 30% returned to prison within three years of release.28
• Compared to men, women are more likely to be incarcerated for drug and property crimes, and less likely to be incarcerated for violent crime. In 2008, 53.8% of sentenced male prisoners were convicted for violent offenses, compared to 35.6% of sentenced women prisoners. 29% of women were convicted of property crimes, compared to 17.7% of men. 26.9% of women prisoners were convicted of drug offenses, compared to 17.8% of men.29

NRRC Facts & Trends | CSG Justice Center

 

[Nemesis]

Its politics..... no politician is going to win votes by suggesting prisons become more progressive.... its just an unfortunate fact

and while you can blame the politicians, the society which demands prisons should be punitive and not rehabilitative also should be looking at itself...

 

[wickedsm]

tftt @JudgeJoeGorilla
i cant really comment on this right now like i would want
so i will reply later for sure

 

[lotteryplaya]

No more private prisons would be a good start

 

[SirReginald]

Prisons serve a purpose, but not how it's done in the United States.

If you do the crime, you need to do some time. I honestly feel some prisoners who have a heavy debt to society should be put to some serious back breaking work, where the public benefits. Buidling of public infastructure.

Others like pedophiles, need not see the light of day

I may get odd looks, but even though I DESPISE peds I think some can be rehabilitated. Yes, prisons serve a purpose and I agree. I'm more in favor of the Scandinavian/European model.

Hell, Mumia Abu Jamal (former Panther) has a good view on this.

 

[SirReginald]

tftt @JudgeJoeGorilla
i cant really comment on this right now like i would want
so i will reply later for sure

Thanks brehette

 

[SirReginald]

No more private prisons would be a good start

I'm in favor of that. However, it looks like our plans for that will be delayed sadly

Critics have long denounced private prisons in the US as unsafe, inefficient and at times, inhumane. Those critics, who include inmates and activists, seemed to find a powerful ally earlier this year when the Department of Justice announced it would phase out its use of private prisons for federal prisoners. This wouldn’t mean the end of privately-run incarceration facilities (they’re also used by immigration authorities and states), but it was seen as a step forward. Except, that when the first contracts came up for re-negotiation this fall, the federal Bureau of Prisons (BOP) quietly decided to renew them anyway. That decision, along with the election of Donald Trump, mean that the US is unlikely to see the use of private prison operators diminish any time soon.

Last week, CoreCivic (CCA), one of the country’s two largest prison operators, announced that the BOP had renewed its contract for two years to run the McRae Correctional Facility in Georgia. According to the company, the new agreement was barely changed, with only an 8% reduction in inmate beds. This despite an August memo from the deputy attorney general Sally Yates that stated that the Department of Justice, which oversees BOP, would either nix the contracts, or “substantially” reduce them when they came up for renewal.

Curiously, the BOP said the new contract, reduced the number of beds by 24%, and saved $6 million in costs, and followed DOJ instructions. The reason for the discrepancy? BOP initially provided Quartz only the maximum capacity of the facility as a basis for the calculation. CoreCivic presented the minimum number of beds it would get paid for—the fixed amount it is guaranteed by the contract.

Either way the contract renewal is spun, activists are disappointed. According to the American Civil Liberties Union, the McRae facility neglected the medical care of some inmates, and unduly punished inmates with solitary confinement. In 2011, the group asked the BOP to shut the prison down.

The ACLU wasn’t alone. “We were hoping for the facility to shut down,” said Azadeh Shahshahani, a legal and advocacy director of Project South, an anti-racism group based in Atlanta.

She pointed out that the BOP extended its contract with GEO Group, the other leading prison company in the US in September for the D. Ray James Correctional Facility, also in Georgia. As with the McRae facility, the company presents the reduction of the contract as small, and the BOP presented the cut as larger in an email to Quartz, using different numbers from the agreement.

“This track record doesn’t show at least any short term determination to abide by the mandate established in [the DOJ] memo,” said Shahshahani. The DOJ did not respond to Quartz’s request for comment.

Separately, the election of Donald Trump as president of the US has activists worried that the steps taken by the Obama administration to reduce the population of inmates in private prisons will be quickly rolled back. Trump has said outright that he supports prison privatization, and his plans for cracking down on illegal immigration would be a boon for prison operators: the stock prices of CoreCivic and the GEO Group soared following his election. Meanwhile, his nomination of Sen. Jeff Sessions—a harsh critic of criminal justice reform efforts—to serve as attorney general certainly won’t help. In October, Geo Group hired two former aides to Sessions to lobby in favor of outsourcing federal corrections to the private prison industry.

“We are actually anticipating that the DOJ decision be quite possibly overturned. Either formally or they would be renewals or re-granting of the full contracts,” said Bethany Carson at Grassroots Leadership, a prison advocacy organization.

What has Carson and her group particularly worried is the president-elect’s promise to introduce mandatory minimums for illegal re-entry convictions after a previous deportation. Illegal entry and re-entry convictions already make up nearly half of federal prosecutions. The convicts are mostly held in thirteen so-called “Criminal Alien Requirement” (CAR) prisons, run by private companies, largely CoreCivic and GEO. Both facilities with which the BOP extended its contracts are CAR prisons.

Carson said that mandatory minimums would send average sentences for re-entry “through the roof,” and would require expanding the private prisons the DOJ said it would close in August.

“Expanding this existing system that federally prosecutes immigrants just for crossing the border to reunite with their families or flee dangerous situations could be one way to quite literally manufacture the so-called criminals he wants to deport,” said Carson.

The US government is already quietly backing out of its promise to phase out private prisons

 

[K.Dot]

They should actually be about rehabilitation and not concentration camps for negroes.

 

[SirReginald]

For Profit Prisons have hurt Blacks and other minorities the most. Also, we are CURRENTLY having a prison strike that's not being covered by mainstream media.



Like I said, I'm for the Scandinavian model.





Prisoners should have a life in prison. Prison was ONCE for rehabilitation. Like I said, being TOUGH ON CRIME has not solved the problem. Especially, when 76% of prisoners return to prison.

 

[MJ Truth]

The issue is that prison isn't here to "rehabilitate" people or even to punish people, it's a way to line the pockets for people, and more importantly it's a way to keep Black people out of society. Too much money would be lost through prison reform, unless it's going to be just as profitable for these CACs to reform it it ain't gonna happen.

 

[SirReginald]

They should actually be about rehabilitation and not concentration camps for negroes.

I agree 100% with this. Prisoners in U.S. prisons have their human rights violated and get treated like FILTHY animals.

 

[WaveCapsByOscorp™]

profit driven prisons are not what's up. you shouldn't make a profit on other's misfortunes, especially when it's in terms of city, state or federal laws. it gives way to corruption within legal avenues in an attempt to meet quotas and raise funds instead of a practice of justice and liberty. and a lot of these deals are going on without public knowledge or without being informed. people really aren't bent on solving cases and settling issues united to move forward collectively as a nation with ideals and values constantly evolving and developing. instead, they're bent on business, and they're in business to make money to be honest. i don't think it's in america's culture to give up these things though. it's capitalism that's the culprit. it's a corruption of the idea of justice and liberty and reform when capitalism is the driving force for expansion. you shouldn't have to make new prisons so as to prevent overcrowding, you should be pumping that same cash flow into programs designed to keep people out of prison and to empty the prisons. that's why i'll say it's american culture (capitalism, attitudes towards crime and punishment) that create such a conflict where reforming the prison system seems unlikely. it's more likely to "break" than be fixed. if you don't consider it broken already.

 

[Anerdyblackguy]

I followed Angela Davis theories about this, and to be honest I agree with her. I think all prisons should be abolished.