black feminism/womanism thread

[NoMoreWhiteWoman2020]

I have been doing a lot of work around black feminism, and i am beginning to explore the construct of womanism more....

so many times on here i find that black feminism has been discredited, and i feel that some men do this without a) listening to black women's perspective on the topic, and b) thinking that they are controlled by white feminists, without acknowledging that black feminism has by and large been built outside of white influence.

In building an inclusive Afro-diasporic community, I think we need to acknowledge the work that black feminists have done, and at least listen to their list of grievances instead of immediately dismissing them as fodder. Many times I find myself having to define my oppression to whites, only to have them discredit the examples I provide with a privileged point of view, and i think some of us brothers do the same when black women talk about their oppression.

We have to stop looking at black feminists as our enemies, and listen to their grievances, and critically reflect on those grievances. Black women have served as the backbones of our communities for ages, and have supported black men and children through thick and thin, and I think we owe it to them to do the same. If we dont support our sisters, who will?

me and @J-Nice will be added some literature on the topic

Black feminist thought- Patricia Hill Collins
https://uniteyouthdublin.files.word...-feminist-though-by-patricia-hill-collins.pdf

Angela Davis- Women Race and Class
https://nashvillefeministart.files.wordpress.com/2014/06/1981_angela-davis-women-race-class.pdf

Combahee River Collective
https://we.riseup.net/assets/43875/combahee river.pdf

 

[J-Nice]

I was contemplating making this thread, but you beat me to it. There are so many facets to Black Feminism and Womanism and when you meet women who identify as either one, you get a lot of different answers. The biggest misconception of womanism and black feminism is that most people believe that it is anti-black male and that it is also only defined as a singular element when in reality there are many layers to it. Alot of that has to do with people who claim the title and don't have any knowledge of what it means or what it encompasses. Here are some good authors:
Patricia Hill Collins
Bell Hooks
Sonia Sanchez
Audre Lorde
Angela Davis
Francis Beale
Pauli Murray

 

[NoMoreWhiteWoman2020]

I was contemplating making this thread, but you beat me to it. There are so many facets to Black Feminism and Womanism and when you meet women who identify as either one, you get a lot of different answers.

That's the beauty of it, it is not one set school of thought- Sojourner Truth who could not read or write, Patricia Hill Collins, Lauryn Hill, and Toni Morrison are all black feminists, but working with vastly different philosophies. This multiplicity is a beautiful aspect; it is as diverse as black critical thought.

I dont think men can be feminists, because we still consciously and unconsciously benefit from systems of privilege, so I disagree with Chimimanda Adiche. I am pro feminism, as I advocate for equal gender rights, but when I hear male feminist, I equate it to white pro-black supporter, and its an oxymoron. Whites can assist in the movement, but they can never be at the forefront of the movement, and I feel the same way with the black feminist movement.

 

[marcuz]

i will not support feminism as they are inherently destructive and counterproductive towards a stable black patriarchy.

 

[J-Nice]

That's the beauty of it, it is not one set school of thought- Sojourner Truth who could not read or write, Patricia Hill Collins, Lauryn Hill, and Toni Morrison are all black feminists, but working with vastly different philosophies. This multiplicity is a beautiful aspect; it is as diverse as black critical thought.

I dont think men can be feminists, because we still consciously and unconsciously benefit from systems of privilege, so I disagree with Chimimanda Adiche. I am pro feminism, as I advocate for equal gender rights, but when I hear male feminist, I equate it to white pro-black supporter, and its an oxymoron. Whites can assist in the movement, but they can never be at the forefront of the movement, and I feel the same way with the black feminist movement.

Male feminist to me is merely title more or less. One of my favorite African leaders, Thomas Sankara was regarded as a feminist because of his policies that were pro-black woman. But I do believe that womens rights deserves a place as a part of the black struggle and not the tiny part that people only pay attention to when it's convenient. I also believe that we need to promote more female leaders in the struggle. One of the biggest perceptions( and talking points) out there is that Black rights is code for Black male rights and that something I vehemently disagree with.

 

[NoMoreWhiteWoman2020]

i will not support feminism as they are inherently destructive and counterproductive towards a stable black patriarchy.

I don't see whats destructive about promoting equitable gender rights.

And let's draw a distinction between black men's lives being valued and patriarchy. Black patriarchy in part contributed to the ineffectiveness of black leaders, and should be called into question. And when over half of the black families today are being led by women, how much patriarchy is really out there?

Do we really need a patriarchy? Men are just as corruptable as women, and just as apt to make rash decisions out of emotion. Think about when whites say that racial equality is inherently destructive and counterproductive towards a stable American society.

 

[PlainSight]

Male feminist to me is merely title more or less. One of my favorite African leaders, Thomas Sankara was regarded as a feminist because of his policies that were pro-black woman. But I do believe that womens rights deserves a place as a part of the black struggle and not the tiny part that people only pay attention to when it's convenient. I also believe that we need to promote more female leaders in the struggle. One of the biggest perceptions( and talking points) out there is that Black rights is code for Black male rights and that something I vehemently disagree with.

This is more to do with our "traditional" views on masculinity and femininity. Hence why there's such an uproar about the "feminization of black men", because of course all men are supposed to be what is classically deemed masculine - ergo women also mustn't stray outside the box of what is feminine. Not that I think all men should be feminine - but I think men and women owe it to themselves as individuals to find positive expressions of who they are. If a woman is more of a leader type of personality, then she should cultivate that. Likewise, if a man is naturally more feminine (note: not necessarily effeminate - which is slightly different), he should cultivate that too. Not at the expense of the other element within, but find the right balance for yourself.

I kinda went off-topic there, but I had to get that in there. I think that has a big effect on how we as men view feminism. I'm committed to listening more and trying to understand these issues as part of being a better human overall. So it's nice to see this thread and see others are trying to do the same too

 

[marcuz]

I don't see whats destructive about promoting equitable gender rights.

And let's draw a distinction between black men's lives being valued and patriarchy. Black patriarchy in part contributed to the ineffectiveness of black leaders, and should be called into question. And when over half of the black families today are being led by women, how much patriarchy is really out there?

Do we really need a patriarchy? Men are just as corruptable as women, and just as apt to make rash decisions out of emotion. Think about when whites say that racial equality is inherently destructive and counterproductive towards a stable American society.

do we really need a patriarchy? what kind of stupid question is that. every other group functions as a patriarchy, we are the only group that doesn't have a stable patriarchy. which is why black folks as a collective are getting our asses kicked by other patriachies. the white mans patriarchy, the indian mans patriarchy, the arab mans patriarchy, the asian mans patriarchy, even the mexicans patriarchy--we're the only ones on some dumb shyt, where we've equalized our duties and responsibilities to that of our women.

this is why i dont take black feminism seriously. they brainwash nikkas into thinking everything that we would need to thrive is somehow evil and oppressive. go on, and keep trying support the unaccountable black woman and her puesdo matriarchy, see how far it'll get you.

i know this much, most complaints black feminist have stem directly from black men not being in the proper position, economically. without black men leading an intact patriarchal structure, where we control the economic landscape of black neighborhoods; the black communities problems will continue to persist.

 

[NoMoreWhiteWoman2020]

do we really need a patriarchy? what kind of stupid question is that. every other group functions as a patriarchy, we are the only group that doesn't have a stable patriarchy. which is why black folks as a collective are getting our asses kicked by other patriachies. the white mans patriarchy, the indian mans patriarchy, the arab mans patriarchy, the asian mans patriarchy, even the mexicans patriarchy--we're the only ones on some dumb shyt, where we've equalized our duties and responsibilities to that of our women.

this is why i dont take black feminism seriously. they brainwash nikkas into thinking everything that we would need to thrive is somehow evil and oppressive. go on, and keep trying support the unaccountable black woman and her puesdo matriarchy, see how far it'll get you.

i know this much, most complaints black feminist have stem directly from black men not being in the proper position, economically. without black men leading an intact patriarchal structure, where we control the economic landscape of black neighborhoods; the black communities problems will continue to persist.

as long as these other groups subjugate our black men, will we ever have a true patriarchy? Do we simply want to emulate the masters tools, or try something different?
I dont believe that the black woman is unaccountable, and I do not believe that by supporting black feminism you support a matriarchal society. We all need to reevaluate our worth, and define our roles outside of white definitions. There are unaccountable people in both genders, and us talking about black women being unaccountable is like white people judging us by the lowest of our people.
btw, i mean for this dialogue to stay positive and not male-centered, so lets not talk about patriarchy in here; we talk about patriachy so much, this is a thread dedicated to our sisters.
all love breh, 100

 

[marcuz]

as long as these other groups subjugate our black men, will we ever have a true patriarchy? Do we simply want to emulate the masters tools, or try something different?

once again, this is not just white people; this is every other group besides black americans. so, no, i dont want to try something different. i want to use to same method that's working for everyone else.

I dont believe that the black woman is unaccountable, and I do not believe that by supporting black feminism you support a matriarchal society.

well, i believe the black woman is unaccountable because all her faults as a parent or spouse automatically revert back to the shortcomings of the black male. you say black women are the backbone of the black community? then why does the community look so shytty right now?

We all need to reevaluate our worth, and define our roles outside of white definitions.

we've already role reversed the community, where the men think like women and the women think like men; how's that going for us?

There are unaccountable people in both genders, and us talking about black women being unaccountable is like white people judging us by the lowest of our people.

no, i'm judging based on how society is setup. women (of all races) are ultimately unaccountable for their actions and lifestyle. they preach all that feminist, equality, rah-rah shyt; but soon as they fukk up, they immediately revert back to "well you're the man, its your responsibility to blah blah blah"

btw, i mean for this dialogue to stay positive and not male-centered, so lets not talk about patriarchy in here; we talk about patriachy so much, this is a thread dedicated to our sisters.
all love breh, 100

its hard for me to keep a positive dialogue about black feminist. they actively work against their own best interest, and usually envy the hell out of white women and all the benefits they receive from white patriarchy[/quote]

 

[J-Nice]

@Panthera @BonitaChelz @Raedawn07 @MarsPunka @Regine Hunter @BedRoomI'z @CinnaSlim @trilldealbaby @MoonGoddess @Booksnrain
@Milk N Cookies @Elle Driver @bcrusaderw @Canadadry


Your thoughts? We need female input for a subject like this.

 

[NoMoreWhiteWoman2020]

once again, this is not just white people; this is every other group besides black americans. so, no, i dont want to try something different. i want to use to same method that's working for everyone else.




well, i believe the black woman is unaccountable because all her faults as a parent or spouse automatically revert back to the shortcomings of the black male. you say black women are the backbone of the black community? then why does the community look so shytty right now?



we've already role reversed the community, where the men think like women and the women think like men; how's that going for us?


no, i'm judging based on how society is setup. women (of all races) are ultimately unaccountable for their actions and lifestyle. they preach all that feminist, equality, rah-rah shyt; but soon as they fukk up, they immediately revert back to "well you're the man, its your responsibility to blah blah blah"



its hard for me to keep a positive dialogue about black feminist. they actively work against their own best interest, and usually envy the hell out of white women and all the benefits they receive from white patriarchy

[/QUOTE]
i might not agree with you, but i respect your perspective, and i will just keep it at that. thank you for sharing your perspective in this thread, and dialoguing about this topic. While we might not see eye to eye, at least you stated your opinion. Peace my brother.

 

[Y2Dre]

So many Black feminists popping up, yet no ones doing anything tangible for Black women

 

[Regine Hunter]

Meh

 

[NoMoreWhiteWoman2020]

Meh

i would like to hear more about why you are indifferent on this topic